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Car Speed Limiters

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Car Speed Limiters

Old 28th Mar 2019, 19:25
  #61 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by layman
Just what is going on you "need" to accelerate to get out of situations?
I've been driving for more than 50 years and can't ever remember finding it necessary to accelerate to avoid an "incident or accident".
Perhaps driving to the conditions or at a speed that is not at / too near the limit in the first place might be somewhat safer?


You are clearly a very careful and experienced driving well within the speed limit, road conditions and your skill level from the moment you last your test.

I am sure the rest of us have learnt from experience, overcooked it on an overtaking manoeuvre, or running out of road.
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Old 28th Mar 2019, 20:04
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by radeng View Post
More electronics to expensively go wrong. Although it is quite surprising the level of MTBF that is achieved, but the more gubbins there is, the greater the chance of something failing.
Tell me about it! My Mercedes C220 decided that, despite having just been filled, the AdBlue tank was empty. A message cane up starting "Engine will not restart in 500 miles" and counting down with each restart. A friend with a garage and 20k 's worth of diagnostic equipment attempted to reset it for me. No luck. He spoke with MB who said to take it to them, which I did. Ten minutes and 132 later the message went away.

Now quite clearly MB have fitted some software to allow them to access and delete this message. I find this tantamount to fraud.
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Old 28th Mar 2019, 21:44
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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I worked for a company that built speed cameras 15 years ago. Back then the sale of these things was falling because they weren't paying for themselves. Digital camera security concerns hadn't matured enough and many cameras were wet film. So needed technicians to replace.
Often you see a camera were there is no where safe for a tech to park their van. Probably health and safety killed off a lot of cameras.
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 00:08
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Grrr

Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
My 18 year old Volvo already has a speed limiter (Doesn't work when Mrs TTN is driving,)

https://www.hatsandcaps.co.uk/jaxon-...yABEgL8fPD_BwE
One of my cars is also an 18-year-old Volvo, but haven't yet fitted any hat units yet. It is still capable of in excess of 140mph; so it's value should increase by 2022. Who, would want to buy a speed limited car! Sales of Porsche's etc to end?
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 08:06
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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A quick look around the internet shows that there are quite a few forums with areas dedicated to "car hacking". It seems that many (most?) cars can have their software hacked, either to turn on or off features by the user, or to add or change stuff, like the colour of the displays or the graphics or to reset service indicators etc. These communities seem to be well-supported, and often release software tools to allow car owners to change their car settings more easily. What's the betting that someone will find a way to defeat any speed limiter?

Those who want to drive fast may already be into "chipping" their car to remove (mandatory) emissions controls and enable better performance, so I'd guess that over-riding any speed limiter will be another thing that just gets routinely done by the boy racers. At the simplest level, just blocking the forward looking camera view (easy, mine blocks itself when the windscreen gets dirty) and jamming the GPS (also dead easy, you can buy GPS jammers cheaply) would disable any limiter, I think. Arguably, the drivers that pose the greatest risk to others, and towards whom this legislation is aimed, will be the ones that may be most likely to disable it, making the value of having it questionable.

Last edited by VP959; 29th Mar 2019 at 08:31. Reason: typo
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 08:19
  #66 (permalink)  
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VP, you are right of course. As certain as night following day, any computer module will be attacked and modified, corrupted or whatever. Your humble Garmin Sat Nav can be hacked and turned into a hand held computer. Don't know if it still works as a Sat Nav.
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 08:37
  #67 (permalink)  

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I don't want a car that will allow me to do twice the motorway speed limit (recently sold the one I did have) but I certainly don't want a car that will not allow me the freedom to regulate my own speed to suit the traffic conditions. For those who tell me EU law will force me to have a speed monitoring/tracking device device (such as some insurance companies already require for younger drivers), I would say that from experience the reliability of such devices is by no means guaranteed. Forcing all vehicle owners to have one will be another government farce, as usual at the tax payers' expense.
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 09:21
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Gertrude the Wombat
Half a mile with no signs?

Street lamps => 30mph
No street lamps => national limit for the type of road

Not foolproof, but quite often a good guess
methinks there might be a typo or two here, unless, of course, you really do drive equal to or grater than 30mph in an area with street lights (other than motorways or most dual carriageways)

hat coat etc

Last edited by golfbananajam; 29th Mar 2019 at 09:22. Reason: updated
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 09:32
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Arguably, the drivers that pose the greatest risk to others, and towards whom this legislation is aimed, will be the ones that may be most likely to disable it, making the value of having it questionable.
I think that is indeed arguable.
There will always be a minority of car nuts who will hack their cars. But the majority of accidents, certainly the dangerous ones on motorways, are due to ordinary drivers following too close or losing situational awareness. Those are the ones who need to be assistec/controlled by technology. The speed limit is probably less important that the other mandated facilities.

​​
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 09:47
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by golfbananajam View Post
methinks there might be a typo or two here, unless, of course, you really do drive equal to or grater than 30mph in an area with street lights (other than motorways or most dual carriageways)
This might help: Logic math symbols table
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 15:07
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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In Ireland in 2018 there were 148 road fatalities out of a population of greater than 4m (who really knows as the borders are so fluid these days). Sad for anyone involved but me thinks that we have allowed our priorities and spending of the tax take to get seriously out of kilter with reality.
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 16:34
  #72 (permalink)  
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Comparable stats are hard to find but the best I could find, assuming it is the whole of UK with 60m is about 120.

My county has some of the worst roads in England for killed and seriously injured. I put that down to poor roads, and in my personal view, low population. Less traffic leads to higher speeds and poorer roads does the rest.
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 16:51
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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This document suggests that motorways are a great deal safer than some other roads: https://assets.publishing.service.go...-2013-data.pdf

This table shows some data taken from the paper linked to above:


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Old 29th Mar 2019, 20:45
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
This document suggests that motorways are a great deal safer than some other roads: https://assets.publishing.service.go...-2013-data.pdf

This table shows some data taken from the paper linked to above:


Two very interesting points from that

- drunk driving casualty level suggests that making drunk driving socially unacceptable is working
- "travelling too fast for conditions" figure is ludicrously low.

"Travelling too fast for conditions" is a contributory factor in all collisions other than those where two stationary objects collided, so approximately 100% of the total. (Of course to reach that conclusion you have to accept that "the conditions" includes all the conditions, including things like the stupidity of the drivers involved.)
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 22:05
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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SOPS your post #24

Originally Posted by SOPS View Post
Have you ever driven in country Australia, Layman? Trust me, then you will find out when you need it!!
i live in a city in country Australia - 20 minutes from home and I'm (metaphorically) dodging 'roos. Yesterday we drove Goulburn - Orange & were overtaken by 1 car & didn't overtake anyone. Only 200 km but have done this sort of distance 5 times in lhe last 4 weeks with no dramas.

I've also done half a dozen 10,000+ km remote area trips with no problems although admit the road-trains can be somewhat daunting.
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Old 30th Mar 2019, 09:10
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
The effect of a 70mph limiter will be the same as a car cruising on the motorway on at 70. Pedal to the metal and all the cars will be travelling at the same speed. That pedal to the metal process may also be used on non motorways.
Reminds me of when I drove from N.Wales to Birmingham down the M6 early 1970s during the 50mph overall UK limit days.
Everything bunched up, zero road safety,
Clive
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Old 30th Mar 2019, 11:27
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, bunching up is certainly a safety risk.

I think that a much greater problem than maximum car speed is poor driving.

Drivers using their phones, not checking their mirrors, not concentrating, not indicating, driving too close, not looking far enough ahead on the road to spot problems, allowing themselves to be distracted, driving with a couple of fingers on the steering wheel instead of two hands, not anticipating events, poor lane discipline, etc, etc.

The other day I noted a car driving erratically, and I was amazed to see some dodgy looking blokes inside with a large phone fixed on a sucker in the middle of the windscreen with a football match playing on it !!!

Driving at an inappropriate speed for the conditions - be they weather, road surface, built up areas, traffic, etc. - IS a problem, but that is not one that can be solved with speed limiters.
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Old 30th Mar 2019, 12:58
  #78 (permalink)  
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A bunch of cars, all driving at an identical software controlled speed at a regulated separation determined by the ACC and that vehicle's handling characteristics is virtually autonomous driving and guaranteed to put the driver in a distracted passive mode. All being well the vehicle in front making an emergency stop will result in all following vehicles stopping inside their safety distance; or will it?

I imagine car interval will increase, the maximum road capacity at that speed will reduce and speeds will droo.
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Old 30th Mar 2019, 13:14
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
Driving at an inappropriate speed for the conditions - be they weather, road surface, built up areas, traffic, etc. - IS a problem, but that is not one that can be solved with speed limiters.
Which is why the current proposals contain much more that just speed limiters.
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Old 30th Mar 2019, 17:39
  #80 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Which is why the current proposals contain much more that just speed limiters.
Really it is tantamount saying all new cars must be autonomous from 2022 but without the need for extensive proving trials and fully autonomous.
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