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BREXIT

Old 1st Sep 2019, 08:19
  #1881 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SaulGoodman View Post
Yes I did mean that. Around 85 percent of Dutch mussels come from Dutch waters. The rest comes from Ireland and Denmark. No issues there post Brexit
Ok, admittedly I don't understand.

Re Dutch mussels. British mussel growers in The Wash had their mussel lays raided by ducks. They sought permission from Natural England to cull duck numbers to stop the lays being eaten. Permission was refused so rather than allow mussels to grow to maturity they sell the lays to the Netherlands.

Mussel fishers also go out to the mud flats at high tide, drive their boats in tight circles to open up the flats. They settle as the tide recedes and then collect the shell fish.

The European demand is there. If British mussels became more expensive would EU consumers go without or pay more?
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 08:26
  #1882 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
​​​​Will the EU suddenly avoid British fish?

As an aside, in Belgium was a hotel with its restaurant and a separate restaurant to one side. The motel to the North advertised Brittany mussels; the restaurant to the South advertised Baltic mussels. I found it improbable that the two sourced their mussels from different places. As likely they were Dutch mussels from British mussel lays.
Pontius, there is some confusion here.
Brittany is the western part of France ;-)
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 08:46
  #1883 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
The European demand is there. If British mussels became more expensive would EU consumers go without or pay more?
France is the third largest mussel producer in Europe (64,000 t), behind Spain (260,000 t) and Denmark (80,000 t), 4th and 5th are Italy and the Netherlands (52,000 t).
According to your government, the UK is producing 26,000 t, that's half the production of Italy or the Netherlands, or 5% of the total tonnage of the above countries.

Edit : France imported ~ 40,000 t of mussels, mainly from the Netherlands, Ireland and Spain.
So the idea that Britain would be feeding Europe with its mussels might need some further consideration...

Last edited by Fly Aiprt; 1st Sep 2019 at 11:14.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 09:39
  #1884 (permalink)  
 
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Listening to Keir Starmer on Marr this morning, strategy for next week is, first secure legislation to prevent no deal Brexit put into law. 2nd., if Johnson tries to avert it going through by calling an election, he inferred Labour won't vote in favour. Were Labour to call a vote of no confidence he inferred that Corbyn will get first dibs on forming a unity government, if he fails other options may be offered up. A lot of inferring!

Question is, is Keir Starmer talking for the party, including Corbyn who still, for whatever reason believes he can win a General Election. Deluded or what?
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 11:48
  #1885 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/m...loathe-england
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 11:55
  #1886 (permalink)  
 
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A very interesting, if long read. A damning indictment of Britain, it's system and it's way of life.

I'd love to be able to do what the author has done, except in my case I'd be leaving the country where I came of age. Sadly my finances, family situation, and of course Brexit, now precludes me from doing so.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 12:03
  #1887 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
Pontius, there is some confusion here.
Brittany is the western part of France ;-)
Would you have preferred that I described the mussels as French or German rather than how the Belgians marketed them?

I don't see the confusion.

And Fly, I refer you to my post about exporting mussel lays to Nederland.

I accept your point that UK mussel harvesting is a fraction of French harvesting. There could clearly be a supply shortfall, but equally it would be short term until EU supply is adjusted.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 12:14
  #1888 (permalink)  
 
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Very interesting and damming article. I tend to agree with the thrust of the argument. Britain needs to leave the EU not for the reasons Brexiteers have outlined either. Some time alone in the wilderness might concentrate the mind. It also confirms my view that the UK as an entity is finished.

I came across these videos. If you ever doubted that the voters were duped into voting leave then here is the evidence from the man himself in his own words, Dominic Cummins. Bear in mind he's back and in charge at No. 10 this time. Everything BJ says is scripted by that man. You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to realise where the power now lies and that he is behind current events. BJ is his willing puppet.


And for your amusement the leave campaign videos


Once the consequences of no deal become apparent. These will make interesting viewing.

Last edited by Steepclimb; 1st Sep 2019 at 12:26.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 12:39
  #1889 (permalink)  
 
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Steepclimb

Iím guessing you voted remain. Did the Remain campaign convince you to vote that way? Do you think the leave campaign could have convinced you otherwise?

So, my question to you is why do you wish to believe that those that voted Brexit needed convincing by the leave campaign?

My mind was made up long before either campaign started and I can honestly say I didnít watch any campaigning by either side.

Why do so many people wish to believe that supposed lies told by the leave campaign are the only reason we are leaving the EU?

The same accusation could be leveled at the Remain campaign but the reality is possibly that most people had made up their own minds either way and the campaigns actually had little impact.

BV
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 12:43
  #1890 (permalink)  
 
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Excellent points BV.

Of course the reality* is that remoaniacs are far too clever and media savvy to have been sucked-in by any form of advertising subliminal or otherwise, targetted or otherwise.

* in their own world
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 12:47
  #1891 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Would you have preferred that I described the mussels as French or German rather than how the Belgians marketed them?

I don't see the confusion.

Pontius, it is just surprising that the first though that came to your mind was the hotel fraudulously sold British mussels for Brittany or Baltic mussels.
Mussels from Brittany are mussels from Brittany, not from anyplace else in France (lots of other places). Mussels from the Baltic are from the Baltic, unless the hotel commit a very serious fraud, which would be detected by clients within hours.
What with "marketing" British wine for Burgundy or Bordeaux ? Who would you believe would fall for such trickery ?

Your mention of British origin when speaking of Brittany or Baltic mussels seems well, bizarre...
Not another trick from Perfidious Albion, I suppose^^?


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Old 1st Sep 2019, 12:53
  #1892 (permalink)  
 
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Your mind may have been made up, Bob but you were not his target audience. It was the undecideds and disenfranchised. You would do well to watch that video in its entirety. He describes in detail how he and his team did it in his own words. He's quite frank about the famous bus promise which as we know is a complete lie.

If you don't find it disturbing that a very small group of unelected people essentially manipulated the voters into voting for something they didn't really understand. Then I'm sorry for you.

I don't think you voted for no deal. No one did. But that's what you're getting. Democracy?
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 13:01
  #1893 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bpilatus View Post
Excellent points BV.

Of course the reality* is that remoaniacs are far too clever and media savvy to have been sucked-in by any form of advertising subliminal or otherwise, targetted or otherwise.

* in their own world
As above, watch the videos. In fact the remainers weren't clever and media savvy. They blew it. He took advantage of that.

You may like the result but do you like the method?

​​​​​​I guess you do.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 13:03
  #1894 (permalink)  
 
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Steepclimb

Once again you presume you know what people voted for.

This whole deal or no deal stuff has been dreamt up by opponents of Brexit to try to scare people into changing their minds.

I voted to leave the EU. I accept whatever comes with it.

People who voted remain will probably never understand why people voted to leave. As long as you insist on trying to rationalise it through your own thought processes you almost certainly wonít get it.

I know why people voted to remain and I wonít criticise them for it. Why must those that voted remain insist on trying to change the minds of Brexiteers and continue trying to label them?

There is probably no point in me continuing to try to explain it. Your mind is made up. As is mine.

BV

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Old 1st Sep 2019, 13:13
  #1895 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
I voted to leave the EU. I accept whatever comes with it.
And so you'll have to accept what comes with it : remainers and some whistleblowers trying to advise about the unforeseen outcome.



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Old 1st Sep 2019, 13:15
  #1896 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I'd love to be able to do what the author has done, except in my case I'd be leaving the country where I came of age. Sadly my finances, family situation, and of course Brexit, now precludes me from doing so.
Friendly Britons will always be most welcome on the Continent.
Provided you get a visa, that is...;-)

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Old 1st Sep 2019, 14:38
  #1897 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
This whole deal or no deal stuff has been dreamt up by opponents of Brexit to try to scare people into changing their minds.
thats revisionism at its finest.

No deal is better than a bad deal. That was Theresa Mayís red lines. The first time No Deal took any real traction was significantly after the referendum.

All the major proponents of brexit, Johnson, Farage, Gove etc said a variation that it would be the easiest deal in history.

If you're truly honest with yourself the referendum was decided by the floating voters on the day after listening to the mouth pieces of either leave or remain.

To say there is any mandate for no deal is defrauding britainís Democracy however tenuous democracy is these days.

It is is rather ironic that the United Kingdom is being run by an unelected beurocrat from number 10 these days.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 14:49
  #1898 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
So you are (perhaps) a Leaver who is in favour of the UK having hard border control in place at the NI/ROI border for traffic into the UK?

I only ask because many a Brexiter's declared tactic in the event of a no deal is to have no such Border on the UK side, which, GFA, aside, potentially allows for FoM northbound.

Perhaps not, Living in France, I voted remain, but I accepted the result without becoming a "remoaniac", rather someone who would like to see all EU borders more firmly controlled. (Including the ones between Italy, France, Belgium and Spain.) I am sure that you will agree that even if a "hard border" is established between Ireland and Northern Ireland, for immigration purposes, it will be as porous as the Dover/Calais/Zeebrugge/Boulogne fiasco.

While it is possible to move illegally between Canada and the US across the border, the likelihood of one being intercepted and asked for ID may well result in a swift repatriation without the option of ever returning. Contrast that with the EU's approach, something lacking?

IG
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 15:35
  #1899 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Imagegear View Post
t even if a "hard border" is established between Ireland and Northern Ireland, for immigration purposes, it will be as porous as the Dover/Calais/Zeebrugge/Boulogne fiasco.

While it is possible to move illegally between Canada and the US across the border, the likelihood of one being intercepted and asked for ID may well result in a swift repatriation without the option of ever returning. Contrast that with the EU's approach, something lacking?

IG
Maybe revoking the Sangatte Protocol and the Treaty of Le Touquet, and having the UK controling its own borders and not letting the job to France (or Belgium) might change things.

Last edited by Fly Aiprt; 1st Sep 2019 at 15:47.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 15:42
  #1900 (permalink)  
 
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I'm sure Italy, France, Belgium and Spain would like to give the impression of tightening their border, but you need more than a few border posts....near where I am, on the border of two of the countries you have listed, the desperate simply avoid the major routes (which very much do get checked/monitored) by walking across the mountains....I'm not sure what approach you suggest the EU take to stop that given that the German units garrisoned down here in WW2, along with their friends amongst the locals, were pretty ruthless and even they couldn't seal the border (thankfully).

https://dahu-ariegeois.fr/passeurs-ariege-pyrenees/

As for topic of the ROI/UK border...is it worth remembering that the ROI chose not to become part of the Schengen area in part because of it's obligations under the Good Friday Agreement?
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