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BREXIT

Old 31st Aug 2019, 12:30
  #1841 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
those that were posting the percentages of where our food comes from and the EU portion etc and that we would starve


Not the same people are saying both propositions.
I for one quoted where your food comes from, but had to correct those equating Brexit to the disparition of trade with the EU.
It's all about food prices for the British households : leaving the customs union means tariffs on imports and so higher prices for your food.
Hence the notion that no-deal seems a funny idea.

Here's what your Parliament had to say on the matter (I know, I know, the Parliament, ahem ;-) :
https://publications.parliament.uk/p...om/129/129.pdf

Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
were missing the fact out that it wasn't all one way, the U.K also exported foods to the EU.
Of course : alcoholic beverages (Whisky !), chocolate, meat, fish (see my fishery post), cheese, etc.
Unfortunately that won't change the cost of food in the UK.

Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
being able to purchase out of the EU would also mean we could purchase cheaper, so some items may rise, but some could equally fall.
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
It doesn't add up : if purchase out of the EU was cheaper, why would you purchase in the EU in the first place ?
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 13:33
  #1842 (permalink)  
 
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It doesn't add up : if purchase out of the EU was cheaper, why would you purchase in the EU in the first place ?
Because the EU, in order to protect its own famers, slap large tariffs on anything that is imported from outside thereby nullifying the price advantage.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 13:42
  #1843 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
Because the EU, in order to protect its own famers, slap large tariffs on anything that is imported from outside thereby nullifying the price advantage.
Allright. But if the UK does not “slap large tariffs” on anything from outside. How will you protect the UK farming sector?
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 13:43
  #1844 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
Because the EU, in order to protect its own famers, slap large tariffs on anything that is imported from outside thereby nullifying the price advantage.

Still doesn't add up : the UK is part of the EU, so to date its farmers are protected.
Once outside, what with not protecting your farming anymore ? Destroy your farming industry in addition to the fishing industry ? Just for the sake of not too much price rise on food ?
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 13:57
  #1845 (permalink)  
 
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Fly Airpt, I thought as much with regard to those links, but not having read them all was not sure if there was detailed facts included, if you are interested still perhaps these links might provide the information you wanted:

Here is a 2018 report on UK fishing fleet:
https://seafish.org/media/Economics_...Fleet_2018.pdf

General link, may be of interest:
https://www.undercurrentnews.com/201...gins-squeezed/

Some Government data, old report updated 2nd August 19:
https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...over-10-metres

Linked to this old government info, note Johnson appears again for those that can point out another of his past comments that he obviously got wrong again:
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-pinching-our-fish/

And an old report from the Guardian for the sake of fairness:
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...n-michael-gove

Think I will call it a day on fishing, look forward to the next subject if it is of interest, farmers maybe.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 14:23
  #1846 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like government planning is going well, according to the Times.

"The food industry says that it fears a “complete and catastrophic embargo” on exports in the event of a no-deal Brexit after the government admitted that it had yet to apply for regulatory clearance required for selling animal products to the European Union."

And

No-deal Brexit: Farmers fear chaos as anxiety bites on the Irish border

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Old 31st Aug 2019, 15:11
  #1847 (permalink)  
 
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SA: I have searched through a lot of the documents linked below and have yet to find any reference to regulatory clearance required for selling animal products to the European Union, so wondered where they got that terminology from, I know that the times comment states 'the Government':

https://ec.europa.eu/food/safety/int...fairs/trade_en

https://ec.europa.eu/food/sites/food...tain_goods.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exportin...u-with-no-deal
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 15:34
  #1848 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
Fly Airpt, I thought as much with regard to those links, but not having read them all was not sure if there was detailed facts included, if you are interested still perhaps these links might provide the information you wanted:
Exrigger, thanks for the links. I'll take the time to peruse them.
Just another press report which seems to be really well informed of the realities of fisheries.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9050431.html

"As soon as the UK government tries to prevent continental European fishermen from continuing to fish in UK waters, French (and potentially other continental European fishermen) are likely to blockade UK fish (and possibly other) exports to continental Europe by physically stopping UK refrigerated trucks as they attempt to drive inland from continental Channel ports."
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 15:53
  #1849 (permalink)  
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EU tariffs on world food imports are designed to protect EU farmers across the whole of the EU. They do not necessarily protect UK farmers. The UK used to import early and late season produce where there was a consumer advantage.

The EU is able to meet this UK early and late season demand because of its geographic spread but not necessarily at a lower cost than the non-EU producer. Putting tariffs on the non-EU producer levels the market but at a higher price for the consumer.

In season produce in UK used to gain a competitive advantage over imports. There is no reason why this trade could not return except for labour costs. The competitive advantage would be lost through high wages or lack of crop pickers.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 16:23
  #1850 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
EU tariffs on world food imports are designed to protect EU farmers across the whole of the EU. They do not necessarily protect UK farmers. The UK used to import early and late season produce where there was a consumer advantage.

The EU is able to meet this UK early and late season demand because of its geographic spread but not necessarily at a lower cost than the non-EU producer. Putting tariffs on the non-EU producer levels the market but at a higher price for the consumer.
I'd really appreciate a link to allow me to check the the facts and better understand what the mechanism is about.

In season produce in UK used to gain a competitive advantage over imports. There is no reason why this trade could not return except for labour costs. The competitive advantage would be lost through high wages or lack of crop pickers.
Does that imply that the UK would need to resort to low wages ? Would that help attract British born crop pickers ?
Hardly sounds like booming business and limiting the number of foreign workers, does it ?

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Old 31st Aug 2019, 16:53
  #1851 (permalink)  
 
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I think the main beneficiary of the prorogue and associated marches, coverage etc has been Prince Andrew!
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 17:20
  #1852 (permalink)  
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Fly, our first early potatoes used to Egyptian. South Africa used to supply late season (for us), but our in season produce was lower cost as it was local. The EU distorted the price structure. You may remember the various mountains and lakes. Admittedly they have a better grip on quotas now.

My remark about labour costs was regretfully tongue in cheek. Crop pickers seem generally immigrant gangs. The EU ones may become scarce but the non-EU immigrants will probably continue. Native farm workers are a dying breed, too much like hard graft in all weathers.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 17:31
  #1853 (permalink)  
 
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Protesters hit the streets while the majority stay silent. An affront to democracy when Parliament was meant to shut down anyway for the party conference season.

Parliament repeatedly turned down Theresa May’s agreement and then failed many times to come up with any alternative but it is still an affront to democracy?

The people voted and now 3 years later it is time to deliver.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 17:47
  #1854 (permalink)  
 
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It’s an affront to democracy because it’s not what they wanted. Don’t you know anything?!

BV
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 17:54
  #1855 (permalink)  
 
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I don't seem to remember these self-serving 'democrats' in Westminster insisting that they sit throughout the scheduled summer recess in order to solve the impasse over Brexit; neither do they seem to want to give up their week at the seaside for their Party conference.

As ever the silent majority are busy getting on with their lives whilst the rabble-rousers, Islington luvvies and designer Socialists are parading up and down the streets.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 20:33
  #1856 (permalink)  
 
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 21:04
  #1857 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Thanks NutLoose. It's nice to have people trying to exchange information on the matters under discussion.

Re the press report, to an outsider, this doesn't look like information but rather a 2-year old Pro-Brexit manifesto from a conservative politic think tank.

Among the supporters they are boasting about, we find this Lawson guy, who tried to get a Carte de Séjour in France...
That doesn't speak in their favour...
Not many hard facts, the paper could have been written by any Jo-Brexiteer here on JetBlast ;-)

But thanks anyway
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 21:12
  #1858 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Dream on.

Anyway interestingly on RTE, Irish broadcasting from a very astute journalist, an actual journalist had an idea suggested to him. Freeports. Northern Ireland as a Freeport. BJ has already proposed this for the likes of Sunderland, ie Nissan. Make it a Freeport and everything made there has no tariffs unless it is 'exported' to Britain.

Only a fool really thinks BJ is a fool. A buffoon yes but fool no.

It of course a risky and the EU might not buy it. The DUP won't buy it but in the scheme of things who cares everyone else will.

Time will tell.
​​​

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Old 31st Aug 2019, 22:11
  #1859 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Steepclimb View Post
Dream on.

Anyway interestingly on RTE, Irish broadcasting from a very astute journalist, an actual journalist had an idea suggested to him. Freeports. Northern Ireland as a Freeport. BJ has already proposed this for the likes of Sunderland, ie Nissan. Make it a Freeport and everything made there has no tariffs unless it is 'exported' to Britain.

Only a fool really thinks BJ is a fool. A buffoon yes but fool no.

It of course a risky and the EU might not buy it. The DUP won't buy it but in the scheme of things who cares everyone else will.

Time will tell.
​​​
NI, a freeport? Is this “very astute, actual journalist” (as opposed to who?) and those gullible enough to listen to him/her quite sane? How on earth would creating a special custom zone -and therefore 2 customs borders - be a path forward, when the pending possibility of just 1 is clearly more than a little problematic?

The GFA was only possible because of a high degree of parity in trading standards and tariffs. This allowed the Republic/NI border to become invisible. Once there is a substantial differences in tariffs - and that is, after all, the true blue purpose of the purist Brexit economic libertarians - the border can no longer be ignored. And with that the hard won accomodation which is the GFA will be fatally undermined.

As to an earlier post suggesting Gibraltar not being much of an issue - I wouldn’t bank on that remaining so. Spain may well be expecting diplomatic payback for letting that issue get kicked into the long grass and not being a disruptive factor in negotiations with the UK. Expect increased future friction if there is a hard Brexit.

The UK is on the verge of leaving a huge mutual trading block. For the life of me, I cannot see the wisdom in it.

I expect to see those parts of the UK that fill me with despair to fall further into ingrained poverty. This is Turkeys voting for Christmas I am afraid. And it will be the bing US capital, the Chinese and the Arabs which will be feasting.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 22:24
  #1860 (permalink)  
 
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Gibraltar.
Britain and Spain both want it. Both countries are EU members, so the EU is neutral - not going to pick sides.

After Brexit, there will be an EU member country with an argument against an outsider. You may be sure that Spain will have the full support of the EU whenever needed.
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