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BREXIT

Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:09
  #1721 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur
They have had 1161 days listening to their own noise. I donít see another 14 making any difference to their proven incompetence and oral incontinence.
If it wasn't so hilarious it'd be funny.

Thank you for reading
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:12
  #1722 (permalink)  
 
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By all means speculate on what might hypothetically happen if a party campaigned to rejoin. But in our recent non-hypothetical election, over 84% of the vote went to parties which campaigned on a commitment to leaving.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:33
  #1723 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
By all means speculate on what might hypothetically happen if a party campaigned to rejoin. But in our recent non-hypothetical election, over 84% of the vote went to parties which campaigned on a commitment to leaving.
Conservative Party Manifesto 2017 'We need to deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union and forge a deep and special partnership with our friends and allies across Europe'

I believe our current PM is still part of the Conservative Party and I don't recall any change to that manifesto being proposed, until now. Those that voted for smooth and orderly departure are quite rightly complaining about not honoring the manifesto.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:55
  #1724 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Grayfly View Post
Conservative Party Manifesto 2017 'We need to deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union and forge a deep and special partnership with our friends and allies across Europe'

I believe our current PM is still part of the Conservative Party and I don't recall any change to that manifesto being proposed, until now. Those that voted for smooth and orderly departure are quite rightly complaining about not honoring the manifesto.
Conservative Party Manifesto 2017.

The negotiations will undoubtedly be tough, and there will be give and take on both sides, but we continue to believe that no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK.Ē (pp. 35-36)


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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:23
  #1725 (permalink)  
 
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I don't have a problem with leaving the EU. It's the 'how' and 'what next' that concerns me.

for you it all seems to stop at getting out.

do you have a plan? We have to trade. We have to eat. On what terms are we to do this?
When we joined the Common Market there was a major concerns too, but things worked out, the same will happen when we leave, Countries simply cannot afford not to adjust. New Zealand is still here, doing well and trading with the world................. But do you remember these concerns??? I do.

read
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4039340...n_tab_contents

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46546204


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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:35
  #1726 (permalink)  
 
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Because the 48% that lost the election can't accept it. The 52% were Ill informed
Democracy democracy democratic.

Two examples of the sort of 'arguments' offered here.
The first, accurate but used in isolation, divorced from the other two RELEVANT statistics which derive from the referendum - 17.4 million versus the Numbers entitled to vote or the Total population of the country.
While the Leavers may well be capable of doing the mathematics, they choose not to.
The second, used, used and used again without a single attempt to define what is meant by the term. It is, as I have repeatedly pointed out, 'Humpty-Dumpty' usage - it means what I want it to mean ... and is, therefore meaningless!
As to BV's impressive CV ... and very nicely presented too - having a little trouble finding the relevance but, as is said, "Each to his own" - No monopoly on Humpty-Dumptyism, you see!
So, yet again, anyone care to justify ALL the numbers and, similarly, anyone care to justify the use of the 'D' word - by definition, that is??
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:39
  #1727 (permalink)  
 
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CJ

How about you answer my question. Why did the UK remain in the EC in 1975 if only 43% of the population voted to remain?

The CV was in response to the earlier accusations from another poster. Who has gone quiet.

BV
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:44
  #1728 (permalink)  
 
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The problem with the Brexiteers is that they never really had a problem with Europe or the EU. Even if they imagined it. The problem was the perceived dilution of Englishness. With all those foreign people arriving and embracing the freedom of living in England. They seem to feel they lost their identity.
Ahhh another assuming you know why I voted leave... Ok let me put you straight on a couple of points, It was never racist, it was never because I deemed that "the problem was the perceived dilution of Englishness. With all those foreign people arriving and embracing the freedom of living in England. They seem to feel they lost their identity"

We have had immigration throughout our country for centuries, from the Danes, ( Vikings,) the Normans etc, it is part of our culture and heritage that makes the nation what it is today.

However I do recognise there are some individuals that do not embrace the changes, and even those I would doubt in most cases are racist, it is simply the sheer numbers involved more or less overnight that scared / worried them. the fact that their towns, villages, communities, suddenly had a large influx of people from different cultures and countries..
I did find it rather Ironic that the now well established, multicultural, and now second or third generation Indian community, in a city close to me at the time complained about the influx of a large number foreigners into the area.
In a way Countries need an influx of people to grow, with the declining population growth Merkle recognised that, unfortunately for Germany she went about it the wrong way by having no control over the population influx.

.

Last edited by NutLoose; 29th Aug 2019 at 09:58.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:48
  #1729 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
How about you answer my question. Why did the UK remain in the EC in 1975 if only 43% of the population voted to remain?

The CV was in response to the earlier accusations from another poster. Who has gone quiet.

BV
On the commonly understood legal basis that silence means acquiescence then it is the action to alter the current status that requires the active (or majority) consent.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:49
  #1730 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
Because the 48% that lost the election can't accept it. The 52% were Ill informed

Two examples of the sort of 'arguments' offered here.
The first, accurate but used in isolation, divorced from the other two RELEVANT statistics which derive from the referendum - 17.4 million versus the Numbers entitled to vote or the Total population of the country.
While the Leavers may well be capable of doing the mathematics, they choose not to.
Good but you forgetting to use all the numbers here.

16,1 million versus the NUMBERS ENTITLES TO VOTE or the TOTAL POPULATION OF THE COUNTRY.

While remainers may well be capable of doing the mathematics, they choose not to.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:54
  #1731 (permalink)  
 
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So, Cornish Jack keeps telling us that we are leaving the EU because of the wishes of only 24% of the population. Or something like that.
Obviously he's not heard of polls then, where a random sample of people are asked the question and it tends to be an accurate portrayal of how the rest would vote, therefore low percentages mean nothing as the result would still be the same as the resulting figures would show.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 11:31
  #1732 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Obviously he's not heard of polls then, where a random sample of people are asked the question and it tends to be an accurate portrayal of how the rest would vote, therefore low percentages mean nothing as the result would still be the same as the resulting figures would show.
If only that were so. For all the reasons I have rehearsed previously, political opinion polling is far as reliable today than it was before the advent of online and telephone polling. The most accurate polling comes from exit polls after elections, when there is a much larger sample, and done principally if not exclusively face to face.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 11:59
  #1733 (permalink)  
 
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After all that has happened over the last couple of days, a poll of my 16 work colleagues today (with an age range of 19 to 62) shows the following
4 voted leave in the referendum
8 voted remain in the referendum
5 did not vote
If there was a vote again today 15 would vote to leave, even with no deal in place.

Strange how some people think its the other way round?
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 12:46
  #1734 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chris P Bacon View Post
After all that has happened over the last couple of days,
Just curious. What has happened?
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 12:49
  #1735 (permalink)  
 
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It is people are sick of it, it is in every paper, on the TV and it is never ending, the UK needs to make a decision, leave and get on with restoring faith in the Country, it has been so harmful to both our economy and businesses financially with this faffing about and a total lack of conviction to deliver the result by our political classes that has caused all this grief.
Kicking the can down the road has just fragmented the UK even more and until we finally ( Ohh Please God!!! or what ever faith or lack of, you support ) get out and put this behind us, can we come together again, until that process happens we are in a turgid limbo of never ending bickering between all parties.

The Country decided to leave three years ago and even the majority of those that voted remain I believe understood the result and I think accepted it. Finally we have someone that is trying to honour that commitment and he is being bombarded left right and centre by those still determined to scupper the departure again!

Three times they rejected a deal, a poor deal that was doomed from the start, but they were offered a deal, and rejected it outright without a single workable alternative suggestion, I would applaud the opposition if they had come up with a, "how about this?" but they didn't, what did we get?, we got greed and a me, me, me attitude from the opposition, give me, me, me, power and we will get a deal, we will solve all your problems and the world will be at peace.... it was a sod the Country, I want to be PM moment, and that became more apparent when the vote of no confidence came with the" I must lead" from Corbyn.... that was not a gathering of parties coming together for the good of the Country, because if it was, Corbyn would have stepped back and agreed that a caretaker leader could take the helm, no that was Labour wanting a power grab yet again.

Now as for the Good Friday agreement and the back stop, I cannot see the problem, the UK refuses to put up a border.... who does? the EU tells Eire to build one? That then is Eire breaking the Good Friday agreement, not the UK PLC... but wait, let's go back to that agreement, why do we need a border? because we will have different customs regulations and taxation etc? well surely when the agreement was originally signed it was an agreement between the UK PLC and Eire PLC two independant countries with seperate customs and taxation, but that never stopped having the borders open, so why should it now?.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 13:31
  #1736 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post


irrespective of how you voted. Do you not see through the absolute division of this vote that this country is absolutely splitting at the seams and completely disintegrating.

And thats not because of the brexit vote. Thatís just a symptom.

Personally I first got an inkling during the London riots.

Nothing ive seen since then had changed my mind.
Oh UK as an entity is gone it is just the time when it is finally gone has yet to be decided. Its sooner rather than later.

DUP know they stuffed, their plan now is how do we get the most out of it.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 13:36
  #1737 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
The UK is having a long overdue debate with itself

leaving the EU is just part of it

many do not like what that debate is revealing

having started the debate many want it over and done with, without addressing the issues that have emerged

quite what the future will bring is not clear to me but the next 20 years are going to be very interesting

think carefully before pulling corks out of bottles

some genies are malevolent

if one lives in the UK you can be British but born English. Will that still be the case in 20 years?
The malevolence has reared its head. Once the genie is out it will not go back in.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 13:39
  #1738 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chris P Bacon View Post
After all that has happened over the last couple of days, a poll of my 16 work colleagues today (with an age range of 19 to 62) shows the following
4 voted leave in the referendum
8 voted remain in the referendum
5 did not vote
If there was a vote again today 15 would vote to leave, even with no deal in place.

Strange how some people think its the other way round?
Just because they tell you something doesn't make it fact. To have indicated they would vote to remain means they get abused, just like on here.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 13:40
  #1739 (permalink)  
 
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NutLoose # 1734. Just perfect summing up.
Let the other side make the issues THEIR problem, not ours.
Surely Gina Miller and those die hard Remainers can see the irony of their argument - that to Leave with No Deal is undemocratic, when they are arguing for the losers of the Referendum who refuse to accept the democratic decision of the majority of voters.

Even stranger is the shrieks of outrage from MP's who ducked the vote for or against leaving and left it to the electorate to decide, then they want to take it back to Parliament where they can't get any agreement on any form of Deal, but don't want "No Deal" when that's all they have left the Government with.

For over 3 years Theresa May was negotiating terms for a Deal which the EU were offering, mainly with harsh conditions to deter any other EU Country from following the same path. Well, now all 27 can see how difficult it is, no one has followed suit, so how about the EU changing their position and settling on more amenable terms?

Then there's the issue of the £39 billion that we supposedly owe - tell the EU they can go whistle it up from the remaining 27 members and see how many then won't pay.
I'm against paying for years into the future simply to shore up an organisation that has difficulty accounting for its spending.

Whatever the problems around a No Deal are, they will affect BOTH sides, not just the UK, and any action against us could easily be reciprocated.
Can't buy German cars? They're overpriced in the UK compared to France, Germany etc and there are plenty of non EU sources for vehicles.

No wine? There's alternative sources for most products.
So let's have a dash of realism. The world will keep turning, time won't stand still.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 13:53
  #1740 (permalink)  
 
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Racedo

Do you honestly believe it is the remainers who are subject to the most abuse?!

On this very thread just yesterday all brexiteers were called racist, stupid people who are not equal to remainers.

This whole debate is a classic case of each side feeling like the victim and completely failing to appreciate each otherís viewpoints.

We have Cornish Jack with his endless argument that the population is being held to ransom, we have everyone believing the BBC is either left or right wing biased depending on your viewpoint, endless debates about the meaning of democracy and now everyone thinks they are the victim of hate crimes from the other side.

Do I really need to point out we are basically just the equivalent of the ranting weirdo with a bible you see in town centres up and down the country?

Nothing we say on here matters and no matter what we say we will never change each otherís minds.

When did we all turn into such over-opinionated, boring tossers?!

BV
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