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BREXIT

Old 14th Sep 2021, 06:50
  #11721 (permalink)  
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The effectiveness of BSE reporting in France left a lot to be desired. Here's a link to a report produced by the French Institute of Health And Medical Research stating

"only 103 BSE cases were detected by passive surveillance up to June 2000, while we estimated that there was 301,200 (95% confidence interval (CI) [27 600-837 600]) cattle infected by the BSE agent. Despite uncertainty over the beginning of the epidemic, we showed that the French BSE epidemic in the late 1980s was completely undetected, and only the second wave, after 1990, was observed".

(PDF) The unrecognized French BSE epidemic (researchgate.net)

I am not claiming for a second that any particular country was responsible for BSE. In fact, I think it is quite possible that with common practices, it may have developed independently in different locations at different times. Is this simply a case of the first country to call it out or whoever shouts loudest, gets the reputation ?
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 07:56
  #11722 (permalink)  
 
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Listening to Farming Today R4 this a.m. The head of the NFU complaining bitterly about the government's response, or rather lack of, to their request for easing of FOM to address shortages of HGV drivers, vets and abbatoir workers. I'm looking forward to visiting our pro Brexit farmer friends in Devon next month.
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 11:37
  #11723 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B Fraser View Post
The effectiveness of BSE reporting in France left a lot to be desired. Here's a link to a report produced by the French Institute of Health And Medical Research stating

"only 103 BSE cases were detected by passive surveillance up to June 2000, while we estimated that there was 301,200 (95% confidence interval (CI) [27 600-837 600]) cattle infected by the BSE agent. Despite uncertainty over the beginning of the epidemic, we showed that the French BSE epidemic in the late 1980s was completely undetected, and only the second wave, after 1990, was observed".

(PDF) The unrecognized French BSE epidemic (researchgate.net)

I am not claiming for a second that any particular country was responsible for BSE. In fact, I think it is quite possible that with common practices, it may have developed independently in different locations at different times. Is this simply a case of the first country to call it out or whoever shouts loudest, gets the reputation ?
That reporting in France was deficient, if not criminally negligent is uncontested. Nor is the open question of why there would be cases occurring more than 10 years after the ban. Although on the latter point the trail of why that might be involves complex questions to which definitive answers may never be known.

BUT: In not claiming that any one country was responsible, you are effectively trying to devolve responsibility from the UK bovine product industry, which absolutely WAS responsible. You are thereby helping to cultivate uncertainly where none exists. And this is the implicit dishonesty in the Evening Standard article from 2012 - it is just a classic bit of whataboutery when we (and they) knew full well what the cause of the outbreak of (v)CJD was.

The whole affair was disgusting and shameful. As with Covd now, we then had a similar bunch of idiot mińisters of the hour, including John Gummer, who fed his child some minced beef in a reckless act of bravado at his child’s expense in order to falsely bolster confidence in the beef industry:

BBC NEWS | UK | John Gummer: Beef eater

He did not even lose his job.

And as further disturbing sidepoint on this story, the daughter of a close friend of his died of vCJD (Source: The Times)

With or without Brexit, faced with such a dangerous perversion of the food chain, every country has the right to stop the distribution of unsafe food. Nothing to do with Brexit or being in or out on any terms. We should, however, try and remember what happened and not be steered to a false recollection of events.
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 11:57
  #11724 (permalink)  
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Read my post again, carefully. I did not say that it did not originate in the UK as I simply don't know. The French have now acknowledged that their situation was very much worse than was admitted for a considerable time. This is neither a lie nor jingoistic as in each case, the paper was written by an authoritative French source. I would not be surprised if many other countries had a similar issue that went unreported.

If you can point me towards a peer reviewed scientific paper that demonstrates that the UK created the issue and was responsible for it spreading across Europe, then I will gladly read it.

It so happens that I was at an abattoir in the UK yesterday morning. I had never visited one before so it was a day in the classroom. Having had time to reflect on what I saw, there are a number of points. The paperwork chain is followed to the letter, the staff were very professional and all vehicles were given a deep clean before being allowed to depart. Next week, I will have a plentiful supply of home reared spring lamb at mates rates along with some new sheepskin rugs.
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 12:28
  #11725 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B Fraser View Post
Read my post again, carefully. I did not say that it did not originate in the UK as I simply don't know.

If you can point me towards a peer reviewed scientific paper that demonstrates that the UK created the issue and was responsible for it spreading across Europe, then I will gladly read it.
B. Fraser, you don‘t have to know as in guess or take any lay person‘s word for it; vCJD was very well researched. The question is whether you accept the conclusions of good journalism or indeed the scientific papers or specialist magazines on which that good reporting was based on, or allow yourself to be distracted by a story you would rather read.

And no, I‘m not doing this for you. If you want to learn about this, have at it.
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 12:45
  #11726 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
B. Fraser, you don‘t have to know as in guess or take any lay person‘s word for it; vCJD was very well researched. The question is whether you accept the conclusions of good journalism or indeed the scientific papers or specialist magazines on which that good reporting was based on, or allow yourself to be distracted by a story you would rather read.

And no, I‘m not doing this for you. If you want to learn about this, have at it.
Seconded. Set to with a search engine, there are plenty of papers out there.
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 13:05
  #11727 (permalink)  
 
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Er, reading this lot - about Brexit???? - could lead one to lose the will to read.

Brexit, anyone?
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 13:50
  #11728 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
B. Fraser, ,,,,,,,allow yourself to be distracted by a story you would rather read..
Let's see what The Lancet has to say..... very interesting if slightly worrying.

The origin of bovine spongiform encephalopathy: the human prion disease hypothesis - The Lancet
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 13:50
  #11729 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer View Post
Brexit, anyone?
Been done, didn’t work, move on
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 14:11
  #11730 (permalink)  
 
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Continuing the imports from the EU sans restrictions. Some geezer on the wireless at lunchtime complaining that British business is trading at a disadvantage due to this. Was this how Brexit was intended to work. Surely we should be told?
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 14:17
  #11731 (permalink)  
 
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Despite the number of breweries the UK is blessed with, all our politicians remain incapable of organising a pi55 up in any of them! Oh the irony that Brexit galvanised the rest of the EU.
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 14:34
  #11732 (permalink)  

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Well, BREXIT lead to the UK leaving EASA. The company I work for has just opened up recruitment to EASA licence holders only. No SOLI available...
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 14:34
  #11733 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B Fraser View Post
Let's see what The Lancet has to say..... very interesting if slightly worrying.

The origin of bovine spongiform encephalopathy: the human prion disease hypothesis - The Lancet
Yep, Lancet‘s a good start. That‘s one paper presenting a new theory with three hypothesis, all of which are untested. The road before you is long…

Many scientific magazines will give s more digestible version of the history though.

But I think we should leave this now as it has nothing to do with Brexit.

If you want to prove a point that the UK got an unfair press over the matter and gather evidence to prove your case, why not start a new thread? But I have to say that approaching the subject that way would be very unscientific. Your staring point should be trying to disprove your own conviction.
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 16:17
  #11734 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Continuing the imports from the EU sans restrictions. Some geezer on the wireless at lunchtime complaining that British business is trading at a disadvantage due to this. Was this how Brexit was intended to work. Surely we should be told?
Ah but, in time honoured tradition, find a convenient scapegoat or influence to blame. Doing so conveniently ignores the haste to "get Brexit done ! ", an electioneering slogan which is now, slowly but surely, coming back to bite Boris. Not that he's remotely concerned, for now, or rather until the electorate find their Christmas shopping costs have risen and, there's a shortage to boot.

Brexit: Checks on goods imported from the EU delayed again - BBC News
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 16:41
  #11735 (permalink)  
 
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It is simple, Brexit was about controlling our borders, and the EU is doing just that. Oh, wait, it was for the UK to control their borders? Someone has dropped a rather large ball then.
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Old 14th Sep 2021, 16:45
  #11736 (permalink)  
 
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After reading the posts above, I thought that Brexit was caused by cows and their diseases.
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Old 15th Sep 2021, 10:46
  #11737 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer View Post
After reading the posts above, I thought that Brexit was caused by cows and their diseases.
There was certainly a very large bovine related content proffered by its supporters, !
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Old 16th Sep 2021, 11:00
  #11738 (permalink)  
 
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Less than a week after announcing a review, M&S has decided, with their franchisee, to close 11 stores in France and has been explicit on the reasons.

From The BBC, 16th Sept 2021

Marks & Spencer has said it is closing 11 of its French stores because of problems supplying them with fresh and chilled foods since Brexit.

The UK retail giant said all 11 franchise stores it operated with partner SFH in France would shut by the end of this year.

M&S said supply chain problems since Brexit had made it "near impossible" to maintain standards of food supply.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58582860

JAS
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Old 16th Sep 2021, 13:49
  #11739 (permalink)  
 
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Ah but, in time honoured tradition, find a convenient scapegoat or influence to blame.
Johnson et al must be thanking their lucky stars that the pandemic came along at just the right moment to provide the goldiest of gold-plated excuses.
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Old 16th Sep 2021, 13:52
  #11740 (permalink)  
 
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Not strictly Brexit related, but I wonder if France will retaliate in some way against the UK for our part in persuading the Aussies to take the nuclear (sub) option - maybe row back on their offer to allow us to set up migrant processing centres on their shores?
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