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BREXIT

Old 28th Aug 2021, 14:35
  #11641 (permalink)  
 
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Apart from a few exceptions, such as the recent vaccination campaign, politicians overestimate how great Great Britain is these days. They should focus on something commensurate with their actual capability, maybe organising their way out of a wet paper bag?
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 14:57
  #11642 (permalink)  
 
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No votes and no media plaudits for saying it's a middle rank country........................................
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 15:44
  #11643 (permalink)  
 
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Alicopter.

Thank for your post.

It demonstrated admirably the truth of my words which you quoted.

You and many others left voluntarilly. Is that not an example of FOM?

You cited your reason for leaving as uncertainty and a feeling of no longer being wanted in the UK. You also stated that surprisingly large numbers of UK citizens have left France and returned to the UK. This suggests that they might have the same feelings. This was presumably acused by the EU or French governmetnts.

If I reacall correctly, in the very early stages of negotiations, Mrs May suggested tat all citizens should retain their existing rights. But the EU rejected this and would not discuss anything until the fincial settlement had been agreed. So it was the EU who prolonged the uncertainty

Last edited by keith williams; 28th Aug 2021 at 16:36.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 16:41
  #11644 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
Alicopter.

Thank for your post.

It demonstrated admirably the truth of my words which you quoted.

You and many others left voluntarilly. Is that not an example of FOM?
I admire your sense of humour... I was happy to spend £450 every five or six weeks to spend a few weeks on my farm in Normandy... now, thanks to Brexit, it cost me close to £800 a trip! I cannot afford it anymore, so if you call redhibition volontarity then you have a strange idea of reality , which explains your views of consequences of Brexshit. Tell this to my wife who has to stay on her own (due to professional circumstances) twice the time we were used to. Since we talk about her, she works in recruitment of scientists all over the world... UK is in deep trouble when government incentives, huge wages and sponsorships does not work... Take your side blinders off because you are in for a shock soon... Not that I care anymore.
I don't know if you are aware of prices of properties in Le Luberon but every single expat I talked to last night is or rather was a very wealthy and influent member of society, Surgeons, entrepreneurs, lawyers, engineers etc... and it is their well educated off-springs, potentialy high tax payers all fleeing the UK, not the low wages employees paying low income taxes...

Last edited by alicopter; 28th Aug 2021 at 17:07.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 17:45
  #11645 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Apparently a lot of transport companies are gearing up with 7 tonners that only require a lower level of licence. The trouble with this is that it takes many more vehicles to do the same amount of work. I wonder how this squares with the green agenda.
Simple, it doesn't!!
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 06:50
  #11646 (permalink)  
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The country with the greatest driver shortage is.......... Poland.

Drivers will ply their trade where they get the best reward / cost of living ratio that allows the greatest purchasing power in their home country. Change any of those variables and the drivers will vote with their feet. What we have seen is a flood of cheap labour who have undercut the market while making more money in "home" terms than could be achieved back home or elsewhere. Correspondingly, truck driving in the UK is now a poorly paid trade and requires a re-set. Freedom of movement is great for a wide range of reasons, but it also has its pitfalls.

It's easy to claim that there are a range of jobs that Brits don't want to do. The facts are that there are a range of jobs where there are better alternatives in terms of pay and conditions. Would you rather pick fruit in all weathers for £12 an hour or make pizzas ? Pay pickers £25 an hour and within a few months, there will be a problem at the takeaway.

Driver shortage is pan-European | www.globalcoldchainnews.com
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 07:33
  #11647 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
What on earth difference does it make, whether they were forcibly expelled or simply understood from the Brexit campaign that they were no longer welcome here and might find future employment difficult?
The result was the same - they went home and we now have thousands fewer drivers.
A large portion of the “missing” drivers came from covid shutdowns of government function. Every year the UK conducts over 70,000 hgv tests, of which around 45,000 are successful. No tests means that over 40,000 new drivers did not enter the market. Add in the numbers who retired or left the job for other reasons (shielding, not wanting to travel) and you have a problem. Brexit added to that but did not cause it.
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 08:50
  #11648 (permalink)  
 
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The last thing that you want when you have a problem is to add something that compounds it. I rather liked Piers Morgan's comment that people were making Brexit out to be far worse than it was, it wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as either of the two world wars. That could be mistaken for sarcasm, it wasn't.
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 11:40
  #11649 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Apparently a lot of transport companies are gearing up with 7 tonners that only require a lower level of licence. The trouble with this is that it takes many more vehicles to do the same amount of work. I wonder how this squares with the green agenda.
There's also another problem with 7.5 tonne driving. If your car licence was issued pre 97, I think, you could drive a 7.5 tonne vehicle under the auspice of grandfather rights. However, the regulations changed, and not before time given the number of idiots who demonstrated their inability to drive one, safely, and you now require a dedicated licence, which, not unsurprisingly, requires a medical / training and...a test. True, the cost is far less, but, the same lack of resources is also applicable.

There's another problem as well. Comparatively speaking, there are far fewer 7.5 tonne vehicles with sleeper cabs. Given an HGV can be dispatched over any duration, subject to the usual mandated driving limitations, thanks to having a sleeper cab, but not so for 7.5 tonne without. Hence all routes / deliveries previously accomplished by an HGV will now have to be reviewed and adapted to suit...more expense incurred as a result.

And as EM points out, the much trumpeted, by Boris, green credentials are negated at a stroke.
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 13:06
  #11650 (permalink)  
 
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KnC
Also a problem in. that many things being moved do not easily or will not fit on 7.5ton truck. As you and EM Green credentials busted again but to be frank I think the idea is a none starter as logistic chains are based on higher capacity trucks and though it is easy to say it in HC reality outside that talking shop is totally different.
On another Brexit issue Mrs Mac came through Funchal airport and commented on how much longer it took to clear immigration due to the que for none EU passport holders. She came off a Jet 737 800 which was nearly full and she was in the middle so ended up at the back of a some 100+ people who also have to show Covid passport resulting in 40min wait. I came through the day before on Swiss passport from Germany with 15min wait. I wondered how this will be playing out at the likes of Palma with numerous inbound UK flights it must I would have thought lead to some big delays in clearing immigration. Anybody heard or been through there recently?

Cheers
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 13:18
  #11651 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Mac View Post
KnC
Also a problem in. that many things being moved do not easily or will not fit on 7.5ton truck. As you and EM Green credentials busted again but to be frank I think the idea is a none starter as logistic chains are based on higher capacity trucks and though it is easy to say it in HC reality outside that talking shop is totally different.
On another Brexit issue Mrs Mac came through Funchal airport and commented on how much longer it took to clear immigration due to the que for none EU passport holders. She came off a Jet 737 800 which was nearly full and she was in the middle so ended up at the back of a some 100+ people who also have to show Covid passport resulting in 40min wait. I came through the day before on Swiss passport from Germany with 15min wait. I wondered how this will be playing out at the likes of Palma with numerous inbound UK flights it must I would have thought lead to some big delays in clearing immigration. Anybody heard or been through there recently?

Cheers
Mr Mac
We passed though Heraklion airport in Crete recently. We were one of the last to get to immigration due to kids in tow, but still took less than 10 minutes. No dedicated EU or non EU windows, everyone goes to the same ones. Didn’t check any paperwork, just the usual passport check. They just asked if we had proof of vaccination and had we done the Greek passenger locator form. But no checks to actually make sure you had.

Same coming home no checks at the airport to leave (airline staff asked us if we had completed form and had proof of negative test, but didn’t check anything). No checks coming back into the UK other than passport checks.
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 14:23
  #11652 (permalink)  
 
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Highflyer 40
There is only one booth that I observed for none EU passengers and 3 for EU passengers though when I went through and indeed Mrs Mac only one officer in each hence long wait probably compounded by many having their first experience of Covid passport requirements. Indeed there is currently a 01.00 until 05.00 curfew here. This does not bother me or Mrs Mac sadly anymore, but they do seem to take it far more seriously than some other EU /UK countries. I do not think UK population would take kindly to a curfew, you can see the the quotes already about my “human right to party until dawn “ 🙂

Cheers
Mr Mac

Last edited by Mr Mac; 29th Aug 2021 at 15:23.
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 14:58
  #11653 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Mac View Post
Highflyer 40
There is only one booth that I observed for none EU passengers and 3 for EU passengers though when I went through and indeed Mrs Mac only one officer in each hence long wait probably compounded by many having their first experience of Covid passport requirements. Indeed there is currently a 01.00 until 05.00 curfew here. This does not bother me or Mrs Mac sadly anymore, but they do seem to take it far more seriously than some other EU /UK countries. I do not think UK population would take kindly to a curfew, you can see the the quotes already about my “human right to part until dawn “ 🙂

Cheers
Mr Mac
Is there actually any point in having a 5 hour curfew?
Clubs, discos etc will shut perhaps two hours earlier, but surely there will have been ample time for covid transmission in the hours before midnight.
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 16:11
  #11654 (permalink)  
 
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Well, they certainly have quite a bit of time to spread it before that. But to be honest, the night usually really starts past 1 in the morning anyway. And usually ends around 8 AM with a nice breakfast. Well, at least back in the days when i did enjoy weekends or vacations like that

And i guess that is what concerns them most, those rowdy and very much uninhibited hours.
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 17:15
  #11655 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wowzz View Post
Is there actually any point in having a 5 hour curfew?
Clubs, discos etc will shut perhaps two hours earlier, but surely there will have been ample time for covid transmission in the hours before midnight.
Wowzz
I do take your point about transmission although my comment was more about the optics ie how important it is made to the general population and I just do not think that approach would work in UK. As for curfews I have been in quite a few, and associated regime changes, and smelt tear gas on more than a one occasion 🙁🙁

Cheers
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 22:44
  #11656 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Mac View Post
Wowzz
I do take your point about transmission although my comment was more about the optics ie how important it is made to the general population and I just do not think that approach would work in UK. As for curfews I have been in quite a few, and associated regime changes, and smelt tear gas on more than a one occasion 🙁🙁

Cheers
Mr Mac
Totally understand the situation regarding curfews in times of civil unrest.
But shutting bars at midnight is pure tokenism !
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Old 30th Aug 2021, 04:09
  #11657 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by highflyer40 View Post
We passed though Heraklion airport in Crete recently. We were one of the last to get to immigration due to kids in tow, but still took less than 10 minutes. No dedicated EU or non EU windows, everyone goes to the same ones. Didn’t check any paperwork, just the usual passport check. They just asked if we had proof of vaccination and had we done the Greek passenger locator form. But no checks to actually make sure you had.

Same coming home no checks at the airport to leave (airline staff asked us if we had completed form and had proof of negative test, but didn’t check anything). No checks coming back into the UK other than passport checks.
Exactly the same in DUB both terminals recently. Despite faffing to show the app, I was just told to “say yes” that I had been fully vaccinated.
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Old 31st Aug 2021, 21:58
  #11658 (permalink)  
 
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Report on the local (Lincolnshire) tv news tonight. Traditionally migrant workers would enter the UK for seasonal agricultural work, harvesting cabbages, cauliflowers etc, but they are now not permutted to do so. Producers are therefore offering wages of £20 per hour, but the local labour pool is small, and people are not prepared to "commute" from outside the area to carry out the work
The effect will be a shortage of supplies, and higher prices, plus much of the crop being ploughed in.
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Old 1st Sep 2021, 06:12
  #11659 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wowzz View Post
Report on the local (Lincolnshire) tv news tonight. Traditionally migrant workers would enter the UK for seasonal agricultural work, harvesting cabbages, cauliflowers etc, but they are now not permutted to do so.
Not totally correct

https://www.gov.uk/seasonal-worker-visa
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Old 1st Sep 2021, 06:47
  #11660 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Hmm - strangely that part was not mentioned by the BBC!
However, I imagine that the migrant labourers who would traditionally do this sort of casual work, are not that likely to be au fait with the bureaucracy involved around the visa application process.
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