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BREXIT

Old 5th Apr 2021, 23:22
  #10441 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by highflyer40 View Post
My posts have been quite clear. I don’t wish for less people. More the merrier. I wish for less agricultural use of land. I wish for more urbanisation.
Good grief! We're doomed.
Who in their right mind would want fewer green and natural spaces and more concrete jungle?
That is just insane.
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Old 6th Apr 2021, 07:27
  #10442 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by highflyer40 View Post
My posts have been quite clear. I don’t wish for less people. More the merrier. I wish for less agricultural use of land. I wish for more urbanisation.
Why on earth wouid you wish for that?.
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Old 6th Apr 2021, 07:35
  #10443 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wowzz View Post
Why on earth wouid you wish for that?.
Maybe he is a property developer
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Old 6th Apr 2021, 11:20
  #10444 (permalink)  
 
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Torquetalk - Your #10436 confuses me - not difficult, of course !
The assertion of greater affluence leading to less procreation is at odds with two of our own notables viz. J R-M and our, apparently, fertile Leader. The Buffoon has claimed poverty, but I suspect, like most of his utterances, the term is not based on common values.
I have to admit to a lack of desire for, or knowledge of, offspring (that I am aware of !) so I may be unqualified to comment. However, there are some undeniable facts, such as the physical limitation of the Earth's land mass and its ability to sustain a finite number of inhabitants. Contraceptives are sufficiently available to allow universal planned parenthood. There is little evidence that such a concept has been embraced - particularly among those with the 'rabbit habits' of some prominent persons.
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Old 6th Apr 2021, 16:04
  #10445 (permalink)  
 
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"I wish for less agricultural use of land. I wish for more urbanisation."

I'm with you - as Sir Kenneth Clarke (he of "Civilisation") said "Since mid Tudor times it has not been necessary to live in the countryside"

there's nothing there - just farmers.................
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 10:07
  #10446 (permalink)  
 
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Don't worry, the "countryside" isn't going to disappear anytime soon. Figures from 2017 for England:

The headline statistics from this publication are: • In total, 8 per cent of the land area of England is developed with 92 per cent not developed. • The biggest land use category in England is agriculture at 63 per cent. • The biggest developed category of land use in England is transport and utilities at 4 per cent. • 1 per cent of the total land area of England is of a residential use with residential gardens accounting for a further 5 per cent. • 7 per cent of the land designated as Green Belt in England is developed with 93 per cent of land of a non-developed use. • Of the Green Belt land area, 0.3 per cent is of a residential use with residential gardens accounting for a further 3.2 per cent. • 6 per cent of land in National Flood Zone 3 is developed with 94 per cent of land of a non-developed use.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 10:16
  #10447 (permalink)  
 
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LowNSlow

Really interesting stats those; if you believe the CPRE or the Countryside Alliance (or indeed Chris Packham!!) you'd think that it was nearer 50 / 50 developed vs. undeveloped!
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 10:25
  #10448 (permalink)  
 
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ATNotts; indeed. I could only find figures for England but if you include the other 3 countries, two of which have a far lower population density than England then the percentage that is developed will drop even further. More research required.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 10:37
  #10449 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
LowNSlow

Really interesting stats those; if you believe the CPRE or the Countryside Alliance (or indeed Chris Packham!!) you'd think that it was nearer 50 / 50 developed vs. undeveloped!
Jeez, how easily the masses are led astray 😯

We are a relatively small island with a diverse landscape, large parts of which aren't really able to be used for either food production or be developed (thank god). So you end up having to "funnel" all your requirements, for food, retail, housing, roads, warehousing, etc, etc, into relatively small pockets of land. So you end up with ever increasing areas of urbanisation, where villages become small towns and small towns become larger, with in too many cases very little green "buffer" in between. That's why our roads and motorways are so congested, as we simply don't have the space for the super highways that larger countries have. Just look at the disaster of smart motorways for a failed attempt at squeezing a quart out of a pint pot...

Add in the fact that we have ~70M people (no one really knows, but that's about right I expect) and it becomes an impossible situation, how to stop destroying our natural environment versus keeping all the developers happy?

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Old 7th Apr 2021, 10:44
  #10450 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Jeez, how easily the masses are led astray 😯

We are a relatively small island with a diverse landscape, large parts of which aren't really able to be used for either food production or be developed (thank god). So you end up having to "funnel" all your requirements, for food, retail, housing, roads, warehousing, etc, etc, into relatively small pockets of land. So you end up with ever increasing areas of urbanisation, where villages become small towns and small towns become larger, with in too many cases very little green "buffer" in between. That's why our roads and motorways are so congested, as we simply don't have the space for the super highways that larger countries have. Just look at the disaster of smart motorways for a failed attempt at squeezing a quart out of a pint pot...

Add in the fact that we have ~70M people (no one really knows, but that's about right I expect) and it becomes an impossible situation, how to stop destroying our natural environment versus keeping all the developers happy?
No, adding an extra lane either side of a motorway wouldn't have impacted that heavily on the environment; the screw up with "smart motorways" had all the hallmarks of the British infrastructure disease. Establish a need, plan for the long term, then cost cut and build at best for today, but more likely for yesterday. Same a replacing one airport terminal with a new one (LBA for example), or adding a small extension to the runway at SOU to facilitate the operation of larger more fuel efficient aircraft that would likely reduce the enviromental impact per passenger. (Apologies for the aviation content!!).,

I was being more than a tad sarcastic with my 50 / 50 remark, but I will freely admit that I thought the percentage of developed land was much great than, from those government figures, it would appear to be.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 13:33
  #10451 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
No, adding an extra lane either side of a motorway wouldn't have impacted that heavily on the environment; the screw up with "smart motorways" had all the hallmarks of the British infrastructure disease. Establish a need, plan for the long term, then cost cut and build at best for today, but more likely for yesterday. Same a replacing one airport terminal with a new one (LBA for example), or adding a small extension to the runway at SOU to facilitate the operation of larger more fuel efficient aircraft that would likely reduce the enviromental impact per passenger. (Apologies for the aviation content!!).,

I was being more than a tad sarcastic with my 50 / 50 remark, but I will freely admit that I thought the percentage of developed land was much great than, from those government figures, it would appear to be.
You're completely missing the point ATN, you're the dinosaur here I am afraid. Massive infrastructure projects that are about enabling growth and "unlocking" land for development should be consigned to the history bin.

Govt (of any colour) needs to get control of immigration, stop being a lap dog to the developer lobby and do a better job at maintaining the infrastructure we have already, rather than continually think the answer is build new.

And planning policy needs to be turned on its head, so their is a presumption against development unless it can be proven to be truly sustainable.
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Old 8th Apr 2021, 10:32
  #10452 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
"I wish for less agricultural use of land. I wish for more urbanisation."

I'm with you - as Sir Kenneth Clarke (he of "Civilisation") said "Since mid Tudor times it has not been necessary to live in the countryside"

there's nothing there - just farmers.................
Isn't that the point? Many of us like clean open spaces, animals and trees. I hate cities, some love em. Live and let live, but if you go to any major city you will find people flocking to the green areas as soon as the sun comes out. Central Park in NY is a typical case.
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Old 10th Apr 2021, 11:16
  #10453 (permalink)  
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...brexit-levels/

Trade with France bounces back to pre-Brexit levels

Trade between the UK and France bounced back towards normal in March as firms adjusted to life after Brexit, according to analysis by French customs officials. Imports from Britain climbed to 107pc of typical levels after taking Covid effects into account, the research found - with exports back at 96pc.

French trade with Britain fell by 20pc at the start of 2021 as the UK embarked on a new trading relationship with the European Union, sparking claims from critics that businesses would be permanently damaged by new red tape. But he latest figures will raise hopes of a swift recovery as businesses get to grips with customs arrangements.

German figures for February also showed a marked improvement. Exports from Germany to the UK were down 12.2pc compared with the same month last year, while imports from Britain fell 26.9pc, up from January falls of 29pc and 56pc respectively.....

Thomas Sampson, a trade expert at the London School of Economics, said the February bounce back was expected. He said: “It would not be surprising to see continued improvement in March as firms adjust to the new trade rules. But the additional costs of dealing with customs checks and import regulations will continue to act as a drag on UK trade with the EU leaving exports and imports lower than they otherwise would have been. How big this effect will be is not yet known.”.....
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Old 11th Apr 2021, 09:02
  #10454 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
Torquetalk - Your #10436 confuses me - not difficult, of course !
The assertion of greater affluence leading to less procreation is at odds with two of our own notables viz. J R-M and our, apparently, fertile Leader. The Buffoon has claimed poverty, but I suspect, like most of his utterances, the term is not based on common values.
I have to admit to a lack of desire for, or knowledge of, offspring (that I am aware of !) so I may be unqualified to comment. However, there are some undeniable facts, such as the physical limitation of the Earth's land mass and its ability to sustain a finite number of inhabitants. Contraceptives are sufficiently available to allow universal planned parenthood. There is little evidence that such a concept has been embraced - particularly among those with the 'rabbit habits' of some prominent persons.
You might also have mentioned the effervescent VdL too CJ. Still, they tend very much to be the exception and the trend has been observed over a long period of time. Perhaps in the case of the wealthy, having kids and lots of kids is a financial burden which they can afford. In poorest countries, having more kids is both an insurance against risk and workforce/income assurance.

It seems genuinely questionable whether there is a finite number of people that the earth can sustain, as demonstrated by the huge leaps in population growth and attendant innovations over time, including food production. So perhaps it is a question of relative numbers, systems and rates of change rather than absolute numbers.

For my money, it is the excess number of road vehicles and the environments they create which is one of the greatest stressors in the UK, not numbers of people.


Brexit relevant bit: I remain convinced that Brexit was one of the worst acts of national stupidity in the nation’s remembered history, up there with Suez and Iraq for ill-considered daft ideas.
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Old 11th Apr 2021, 09:14
  #10455 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...brexit-levels/

Trade with France bounces back to pre-Brexit levels

Trade between the UK and France bounced back towards normal in March as firms adjusted to life after Brexit, according to analysis by French customs officials. Imports from Britain climbed to 107pc of typical levels after taking Covid effects into account, the research found - with exports back at 96pc.

French trade with Britain fell by 20pc at the start of 2021 as the UK embarked on a new trading relationship with the European Union, sparking claims from critics that businesses would be permanently damaged by new red tape. But he latest figures will raise hopes of a swift recovery as businesses get to grips with customs arrangements.

German figures for February also showed a marked improvement. Exports from Germany to the UK were down 12.2pc compared with the same month last year, while imports from Britain fell 26.9pc, up from January falls of 29pc and 56pc respectively.....

Thomas Sampson, a trade expert at the London School of Economics, said the February bounce back was expected. He said: “It would not be surprising to see continued improvement in March as firms adjust to the new trade rules. But the additional costs of dealing with customs checks and import regulations will continue to act as a drag on UK trade with the EU leaving exports and imports lower than they otherwise would have been. How big this effect will be is not yet known.”.....

The Torygraph headline: Trade with France bounces back to pre-Brexit levels

The devil in the detail (also known as the real story): Thomas Sampson, a trade expert at the London School of Economics, said the February bounce back was expected. He said: “It would not be surprising to see continued improvement in March as firms adjust to the new trade rules. But the additional costs of dealing with customs checks and import regulations will continue to act as a drag on UK trade with the EU leaving exports and imports lower than they otherwise would have been. How big this effect will be is not yet known.”....


There will clearly be a post-Covid bounce back anyway, as there is a great deal of pent-up demand. But who in their right mind expects there to be the same level or more of sustainable trade with the EU post-Brexit in the foreseeable future? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Keep the propaganda coming ORAC. We expect no less.
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Old 11th Apr 2021, 09:36
  #10456 (permalink)  
 
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The 'bounce' is just as predicted, as suppliers caught up with the loss of supplies due to covid.
We await the effect of trade changes due only to Brexit.
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Old 11th Apr 2021, 09:59
  #10457 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
The Torygraph headline: Trade with France bounces back to pre-Brexit levels

The devil in the detail (also known as the real story): Thomas Sampson, a trade expert at the London School of Economics, said the February bounce back was expected. He said: “It would not be surprising to see continued improvement in March as firms adjust to the new trade rules. But the additional costs of dealing with customs checks and import regulations will continue to act as a drag on UK trade with the EU leaving exports and imports lower than they otherwise would have been. How big this effect will be is not yet known.”....


There will clearly be a post-Covid bounce back anyway, as there is a great deal of pent-up demand. But who in their right mind expects there to be the same level or more of sustainable trade with the EU post-Brexit in the foreseeable future? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Keep the propaganda coming ORAC. We expect no less.
The key phrase in the original "cut and paste" posting was "after taking Covid effects into account". In other words a case of using statistics to fit the required narrative.
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Old 11th Apr 2021, 10:20
  #10458 (permalink)  
 
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In other words a case of using statistics to fit the required narrative.
The irony of that statement is that is a strategy used quite frequently by, in the main, the remain side.
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Old 11th Apr 2021, 10:25
  #10459 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
The irony of that statement is that is a strategy used quite frequently by, in the main, the remain side.
Not sure if you acre being ironic Exrigger. But if not, can you evidence this? I should have thought that one of the problems for the Remain side of the argument pre-Brexit, was not coming in with hard facts and stats to make a clear and convincing argument. This because there aren‘t any. This didn’t stop Fauxrage et al from selling a pack of black and white lies to a public hungry for simple arguments to pin their flag to.

Last edited by Torquetalk; 11th Apr 2021 at 10:46.
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Old 11th Apr 2021, 10:25
  #10460 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
The irony of that statement is that is a strategy used quite frequently by, in the main, the remain side.
That strategy is used by all proponents of a particular point of view, and to say that the "remain" side used it more than leave is a little far fetched. Leaving statistics aside try talking to people who actually work in European logistics, or people actually try to trade with Europe and you'll quickly see that things aren't as rosy as the "leave" lobby might wish to paint it.
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