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BREXIT

Old 4th Aug 2019, 18:26
  #761 (permalink)  
 
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the EU parliament will stay paralysed with everybody awaiting the new British episode
The EU Parliament is an expensive, powerless irrelevance. Its existence is a pretence that the EU is a democratic entity. As the majority of the member states have only the haziest idea how a real democracy works, the central power group who run things can get away with it. However, watching the reaction when the Parliament were told who the next set of apparatchiks would be, and the MEPs nominations would be ignored, the natives may become restless.
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Old 4th Aug 2019, 20:30
  #762 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
any further delay puts him at risk of a Vote Of No Confidence and a general election (which he is not certain, by any means, of winning).
Not sure to see in what respect this would be a catastrophe.
He'd not be the first PM to procrastinate when the time to put words into action has come...


Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
The solution is very simple. Refuse any request from the UK for a further extension. And on 31st October you'll be shot of us.
Actually, not.
The British may revoke article 50 up to the last minute.
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Old 4th Aug 2019, 20:39
  #763 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
The EU Parliament is an expensive, powerless irrelevance. Its existence is a pretence that the EU is a democratic entity. As the majority of the member states have only the haziest idea how a real democracy works,
Now, this is interesting.
So why on earth did the British complain that they have been deprived of their liberty, autonomy etc. by this powerless irrelevance ?
Or maybe you were alluding to another Parliament, in a certain member-state, who is making a fool of itself^^?

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Old 4th Aug 2019, 20:58
  #764 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
Actually, not.The British may revoke article 50 up to the last minute.
And how is that going to happen? And who is going to do it?

Not Boris Johnson. He has made it clear the UK is leaving, with or without a deal. He will absolutely not revoke Article 50.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 07:59
  #765 (permalink)  
 
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I have a question that may sound a bit naive, but I shall ask it anyway:
I have just been listening to a learned soul telling us in no uncertain terms that on November 1st, exports from the EU to UK will fall by at least 50% as France begins treating the UK as a 3rd country (he was referring specifically to cross Channel truck traffic. And it was this that brought up my question. If the UK adopts a laissez faire attitude to inbound truck freight, perhaps giving directions to HM Customs to make only targeted stops & searches and France adopts the attitude of "We don't care what is going out of the EU. Exports are exports", then why should there be any major impact on cross Channel traffic, imports etc? I can understand the potential for disruption in the reverse direction as exporters may have difficulties with EU imposed duties, paper work etc. but surely delays to inbound traffic would be the responsibility of HM government?
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 08:28
  #766 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
So why on earth did the British complain that they have been deprived of their liberty, autonomy etc. by this powerless irrelevance ?
We didn't complain about the Parliament but the Commission.

As a crude explanation, any laws we don't like, we blame the EU. Any we do like we claim responsibility.

There was one, I think earlier this year, which was not well received in UK. It was Brussels ' fault. It emerged that the UK has been the driving force and a major influence on the legislation.

Away from the EU, I experienced some rule 'uniquely' created by one of our ministries. Then, reading a paper from another country, not in the Commonwealth, I discovered the exact same rule. Our Governments all practise this blame/claim deal.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 08:31
  #767 (permalink)  
 
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I have exactly the same question as KelvinD.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 08:53
  #768 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I have a question that may sound a bit naive, but I shall ask it anyway:
I have just been listening to a learned soul telling us in no uncertain terms that on November 1st, exports from the EU to UK will fall by at least 50% as France begins treating the UK as a 3rd country (he was referring specifically to cross Channel truck traffic. And it was this that brought up my question. If the UK adopts a laissez faire attitude to inbound truck freight, perhaps giving directions to HM Customs to make only targeted stops & searches and France adopts the attitude of "We don't care what is going out of the EU. Exports are exports", then why should there be any major impact on cross Channel traffic, imports etc? I can understand the potential for disruption in the reverse direction as exporters may have difficulties with EU imposed duties, paper work etc. but surely delays to inbound traffic would be the responsibility of HM government?
I can't understand how anyone can suggest that exports from EU to UK will fall by "x" percent overnight. They won't. Their passage may be impeded as there will need to be new processes put in place as the shipments will be moving from EU to a third country, and that, in and of itself, is going to require a different export customs regime from all of the remaining 27 EU states - the processes will become the same as they would be were any of the shipments be destined for the USA, or any other third country. Another issue is vehicle permits for UK operators to trade between the UK and EU. Permits were allocated in preparation for our exit on 29th March, but the FTA and RHA both publicly said the number of permits up for grabs nowhere near met the demand from the UK road haulage industry. That could impede trade between the EU and UK.

Whatever the bluster from the new UK regime, they will require some sort of checks and administration for all cargo arriving at the border, if for no other reason than to ensure that VAT due to the UK treasury is actually recorded, and then paid. Customs duties are a red herring. If the UK was to operate a laissez faire attitude to EU trade were we to leave with no deal, under WTO rules, other WTO members would likely call "foul" as their exports would be being treated differently to products exported from the EU. If the UK said, "right, no problem, we'll unilaterally abandon customs duties, quotas and the like for all WTO members", effectively the world that would have a detrimental effect on revenues to the treasury ( I don't know how much) and a disastrous effect on UK industries such as agriculture and steel, to name but two, as other nations would have free rein to dump all their excess produce on the UK, at very advantageous prices, while likely as not, failing to reciprocate - agriculture is one of the most protected sectors in world trade, as we know from the EU and USA policies.

I know (and yes I do know) that the likes of the FTA, BIFA, and CILT have all lobbied government about the issues relating to post Brexit trade. I feel sure that the civil servants at least, if not the politicians, will have listened attentively and will be suggesting for the very reasons above that leaving in chaos without a deal could, as Sir Humphrey would have said, be a "courageous" decision. Leaving in an orderly manner would be far less damaging in the short to medium term.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 10:08
  #769 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I the UK adopts a laissez faire attitude to inbound truck freight, perhaps giving directions to HM Customs to make only targeted stops & searches
So open borders (sorry laissez faire attitude) is taking back control?

Does everything come second to the ideology of Brexit, including the supposed aim of Brexit??
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 10:13
  #770 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post


So open borders (sorry laissez faire attitude) is taking back control?

Does everything come second to the ideology of Brexit, including the supposed aim of Brexit??
It appears to. I really don't understand how we have got to this situation.

Only truly big, powerful nations can truly take back control. The rest of us, medium sized nations, unless we're part of a larger more powerful block, take their orders from the likes of the USA, or Russia, or China - or indeed all three. We can't trade with countries the USA doesn't like, Ukraine can't join the EU (or the "international community") as Russia doesn't like the idea. Globalisation has really diminished the amount of "control" individual nations can truly keep.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 11:10
  #771 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
And how is that going to happen? And who is going to do it?

Not Boris Johnson. He has made it clear the UK is leaving, with or without a deal. He will absolutely not revoke Article 50.
The guy doesn't appear especially reliable, didn't he change his mind several times about Brexit ?

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Old 5th Aug 2019, 11:17
  #772 (permalink)  
 
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ATNotts: Thanks for the informative reply.
I can't understand how anyone can suggest that exports from EU to UK will fall by "x" percent overnight. They won't
Exactly my thoughts while listening to this 'expert'. I couldn't help thinking "Oh. The sky is falling in again!"
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 11:21
  #773 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post

As a crude explanation, any laws we don't like, we blame the EU. Any we do like we claim responsibility.
;-)
Maybe that's why those politicians will balk at the very moment of assuming full responsibility.


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Old 5th Aug 2019, 11:25
  #774 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I can't understand how anyone can suggest that exports from EU to UK will fall by "x" percent overnight. They won't. Their passage may be impeded as there will need to be new processes put in place as the shipments will be moving from EU to a third country, and that, in and of itself, is going to require a different export customs regime from all of the remaining 27 EU states - the processes will become the same as they would be were any of the shipments be destined for the USA, or any other third country. ...
I travel between countries quite a bit and I have never had to go through any customs channel going out of a country, only going into a country. So what is an 'export customs regime'? Other than bloody-mindedness (and we all know which country that applies to) why should exports from the EU be affected from that end?

Originally Posted by ATNotts
Only truly big, powerful nations can truly take back control.
Surely being in the top 5 economies in the world falls into that category?
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 11:28
  #775 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I can't understand how anyone can suggest that exports from EU to UK will fall by "x" percent overnight. They won't.
Actually, nobody knows for sure.
Now what could happen is, due to customs duties, UK exports to the EU will be more expensive as compared to exports from member states, so what are the potential customers going to do ?

Last edited by Fly Aiprt; 5th Aug 2019 at 11:33. Reason: Typo
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 11:31
  #776 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
I travel between countries quite a bit and I have never had to go through any customs channel going out of a country, only going into a country. So what is an 'export customs regime'? Other than bloody-mindedness (and we all know which country that applies to) why should exports from the EU be affected from that end?
Maybe you don't know enough? You think that products leaving the country are not checked and, if no fta is agreed, you do not have to fill out an export customs declaration? You do not have to go to your local customs office and get the paperwork signed? Do you have any idea?

Surely being in the top 5 economies in the world falls into that category?
The rate indias economy is growing and the pound is going down, how about being out of top 5?
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 11:37
  #777 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
Actually, nobody know for sure.
Now what could happen is, due to customs duties, UK exports to the EU will be more expensive as compared to exports from member states, so what are the potential customers going to do ?
The UK government listed tariffs that would be applied to imports and cars would be subject to a 10% duty (and this was confirmed to us by a concerned dealer). EU exports to the UK will be more expensive as compared to cars built in Britain. What are the potential British customers going to do? What is the German car industry going to do? What is the state of 'health' of the German car industry right now? How well is the German economy in general doing right now?
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 11:39
  #778 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ThorMos View Post
Maybe you don't know enough? You think that products leaving the country are not checked and, if no fta is agreed, you do not have to fill out an export customs declaration? You do not have to go to your local customs office and get the paperwork signed? Do you have any idea?

I am asking that question because I don't know. (I like your Socratic approach of answering a question with a question! But my first question remains unanswered!)
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 11:44
  #779 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ThorMos View Post
Maybe you don't know enough? You think that products leaving the country are not checked and, if no fta is agreed, you do not have to fill out an export customs declaration? You do not have to go to your local customs office and get the paperwork signed? Do you have any idea?



The rate indias economy is growing and the pound is going down, how about being out of top 5?
According to some estimates we are already no.6 behind France.

Considering we were no.1 in Victorian times and steadily moved down the table during the 20th century, the number 5(?) position is not a given. As we lose trade after Brexit, the only way is down.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 12:07
  #780 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
EU exports to the UK will be more expensive as compared to cars built in Britain.
What cars built in Britain^^?

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