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BREXIT

Old 27th Oct 2019, 17:20
  #3641 (permalink)  
 
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I hope somebody can explain that it is not what it looks like.
I gave up trying to make sense of this playground behaviour once I was declared disenfranchised. But it's shocking that one person can completely dismantle democracy, honesty and public morale in just over 3 months.... (and yes, perhaps some of things were made easier for him by his predecessors, but he really put the boot in, only opening his mouth to change feet.)

And noone else in the House of Commons seems to have been able to move us forward out of the s*it either, whatever or whomever they say they represent.
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Old 27th Oct 2019, 17:32
  #3642 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Alsacienne View Post
But it's shocking that one person can completely dismantle democracy, honesty and public morale in just over 3 months....
He's not alone. He's got millions of followers in the UK.


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Old 27th Oct 2019, 17:40
  #3643 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Aihkio View Post
...
I hope somebody can explain that it is not what it looks like.
...
If it looks like a load of incompetent narcissists claiming they want one thing while quite clearly hoping for another, all the while hoping everyone else will suddenly roll over and give in ... it is exactly that.

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Old 27th Oct 2019, 17:57
  #3644 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Aihkio View Post
But what I really cannot understand is how totally disorganized and fragmented not to say without any effective leadership the Brexit process on the British side seems to be. It also looks like the British government (including parliament) lacks internal procedures on how various non-normal things are and should be handled.

I hope somebody can explain that it is not what it looks like.....
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-political-war

"........The electorate is fast losing trust in leaders happy to abuse our democratic heritage............"
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Old 27th Oct 2019, 22:53
  #3645 (permalink)  
 
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Agreed, it is 600 odd lemmings in parliament, the rest of the Country is made of sterner stuff, something we have proved over and over again when the chips are down.
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Old 27th Oct 2019, 23:01
  #3646 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-political-war

"........The electorate is fast losing trust in leaders happy to abuse our democratic heritage............"
Wow !
Inflammatory article, but many fair points...

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Old 27th Oct 2019, 23:24
  #3647 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Agreed, it is 600 odd lemmings in parliament, the rest of the Country is made of sterner stuff, something we have proved over and over again when the chips are down.
The UK has changed in the last 2 or 3 decades.
The present generation cannot be compared to the Britons of yesterday.
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Old 28th Oct 2019, 00:30
  #3648 (permalink)  
 
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As the late Robin Williams quipped. The British parliament is like the American congress but with a one drink minimum.
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Old 28th Oct 2019, 06:56
  #3649 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Alsacienne View Post
I gave up trying to make sense of this playground behaviour once I was declared disenfranchised. But it's shocking that one person can completely dismantle democracy, honesty and public morale in just over 3 months.... (and yes, perhaps some of things were made easier for him by his predecessors, but he really put the boot in, only opening his mouth to change feet.)

And noone else in the House of Commons seems to have been able to move us forward out of the s*it either, whatever or whomever they say they represent.


Just to clarify the line of succession as it were, enter one N.Farage, who took it upon himself to become the most prominent and vociferous advocate of the UK leaving the EU. Thereafter, others simply followed and added to the clamour.

Dave can justifiably be blamed for lacking the personal, political and moral resolve with his capitulation, but, the real instigator ( remarkably silent, for him, in recent times ) was Farage.
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Old 28th Oct 2019, 08:21
  #3650 (permalink)  
 
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The New Yorker: "How Brexit Will End"........

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...rexit-will-end

..... Elements of the Brexit crisis have been there since the beginning. The referendum on Britain’s membership in the European Union was a momentous act of direct democracy in a country that has been governed by Parliament for more than three hundred years. Seventy-four per cent of M.P.s, along with the Bank of England, the Confederation of British Industry, David Beckham, Stephen Hawking, and J. K. Rowling—“the establishment,” “the machine,” in the words of Leavers—opposed Brexit. The referendum did not specify what Brexit would look like. The constitution stretched and strained. The government struggled to cope.....
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Old 28th Oct 2019, 08:27
  #3651 (permalink)  
 
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Looking at Traffic England's motorway map this morning, one can't help notice that the Kingdom is absolutely inundated with motorway signs claiming that will need to worry about driving to Europe. "Driving to EU. New Documents 1 Nov. - Check". Hundreds of them all over the place now. So, I thought I would check. The government's web site tells us nothing new, with the exception of International Driving Permits (IDP). That section reveals that, within varying time limits, one does not need an IDP to drive in Europe with 3 exceptions:
Italy, France & Cyprus. Note of caution here; do NOT try to drive to Cyprus. You will drown! Trust France to be the awkward one! I thought all the member States of the EU operated under the same rules, particularly those signed up to the Schengen Agreement. As for the other exception, Italy, do they have a government this week?
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Old 28th Oct 2019, 08:54
  #3652 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Looking at Traffic England's motorway map this morning, one can't help notice that the Kingdom is absolutely inundated with motorway signs claiming that will need to worry about driving to Europe. "Driving to EU. New Documents 1 Nov. - Check". Hundreds of them all over the place now. So, I thought I would check. The government's web site tells us nothing new, with the exception of International Driving Permits (IDP). That section reveals that, within varying time limits, one does not need an IDP to drive in Europe with 3 exceptions:
Italy, France & Cyprus. Note of caution here; do NOT try to drive to Cyprus. You will drown! Trust France to be the awkward one! I thought all the member States of the EU operated under the same rules, particularly those signed up to the Schengen Agreement. As for the other exception, Italy, do they have a government this week?
Yes, we do. And the funny thing is that it seems stronger than yours these days.

Anyway don't worry about DRIVING in the EU. You should try to understand how to legally ENTER the EU first...and you still fail to get that "the EU is a big bad boy forcing us to do things we don't want to do" it's just a lie continuously repeated by your politicians. The underlined is just another evidence of that and shows the pure lack of knowledge about the EU of some UK citizens.


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Old 28th Oct 2019, 09:12
  #3653 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bulldog89 View Post


Yes, we do. And the funny thing is that it seems stronger than yours these days.

Anyway don't worry about DRIVING in the EU. You should try to understand how to legally ENTER the EU first...and you still fail to get that "the EU is a big bad boy forcing us to do things we don't want to do" it's just a lie continuously repeated by your politicians. The underlined is just another evidence of that and shows the pure lack of knowledge about the EU of some UK citizens.


And that lack of knowledge, to a great extent is not the fault of the people, but of their media which either chooses to prioritise foreign news from the anglophile world, or chooses to be deliberately misleading in their coverage of all things political related to the EU. Look at how many times the BBC News chooses to show any coverage of the EU Parliament unless it involves Farage being rude and obnoxious to other MEPs.

We are badly served by our news media.
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Old 28th Oct 2019, 09:27
  #3654 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bulldog89 View Post
Anyway don't worry about DRIVING in the EU. You should try to understand how to legally ENTER the EU first...and you still fail to get that "the EU is a big bad boy forcing us to do things we don't want to do" it's just a lie continuously repeated by your politicians. The underlined is just another evidence of that and shows the pure lack of knowledge about the EU of some UK citizens.


France, just as any other member state - including the UK - is free to implement the EU rules in its own way.
Member states keep their own sovereignty within the Union.
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Old 28th Oct 2019, 09:27
  #3655 (permalink)  
 
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Seems I was right, as the EU will grant the extension to the end of January 2020, seems Macron had no effect on the length of the extension after all and their appears to be none of the valid reasons for the extension being required. It is being called a flextension and the UK can leave before January 2020 if the deal gets ratified in Westminster, so basically at the end of January we will be exactly where we are today, and any GE between now and then will change nothing and could, if that is possible, make it worse.
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Old 28th Oct 2019, 09:34
  #3656 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
We are badly served by our news media.
Agree on your last point, but no one here is entitled to plead innocence.
There have been so many posts here endeavouring to settle things straight re the EU, so many links to reliable info, so many translations of European articles and websites, that only dishonnest people can say "they didn't know".
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Old 28th Oct 2019, 09:44
  #3657 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
Seems I was right, as the EU will grant the extension to the end of January 2020, seems Macron had no effect on the length of the extension after all and their appears to be none of the valid reasons for the extension being required. It is being called a flextension and the UK can leave before January 2020 if the deal gets ratified in Westminster, so basically at the end of January we will be exactly where we are today, and any GE between now and then will change nothing and could, if that is possible, make it worse.
You see, France is capable of losing a vote without whining and moaning they are being bullied by the EU and they lost sovereignty...
Actually it is my feeling that they caved, I always said that nobody in the EU wishes to be the bad guy who kicked the UK out in the gloom ;-)
And please note that the EU doesn't wish to interfere with your puny playground disputes, no need for BJ or MPs to write again.
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Old 28th Oct 2019, 10:04
  #3658 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
You see, France is capable of losing a vote without whining and moaning they are being bullied by the EU and they lost sovereignty...
Actually it is my feeling that they caved, I always said that nobody in the EU wishes to be the bad guy who kicked the UK out in the gloom ;-)
And please note that the EU doesn't wish to interfere with your puny playground disputes, no need for BJ or MPs to write again.
I personally wouldn't care about "being the bad guy". The UK wants to be a third country and we should treat it just like that.
It seems more plausible that nobody want to serve BJ a last minute opportunity for a no-deal exit, and with the flexible extension nobody could blame the EU, whatever the end result.

Anyway the decision is still being discussed, and any extension would need an unanimous agreement. So if Macron stocks to his NO, there will be no extension at all.

edit: 31st of January agreed as twitted by Tusk. So no Brexit on Oct the 31st...honestly disappointed...too many political games in place to me...

Last edited by bulldog89; 28th Oct 2019 at 10:17.
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Old 28th Oct 2019, 10:28
  #3659 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
You see, France is capable of losing a vote without whining and moaning they are being bullied by the EU and they lost sovereignty...
Actually it is my feeling that they caved, I always said that nobody in the EU wishes to be the bad guy who kicked the UK out in the gloom ;-)
And please note that the EU doesn't wish to interfere with your puny playground disputes, no need for BJ or MPs to write again.
I hope my post had not been seen as implying that France was whining or moaning, it was not my intention if it had. As for the EU not wanting to be the bad guy who kicks the UK out by default, you are forgetting that Westminster has removed that option from the equation, for them there are only two options; accept a deal or revoke Article 50 and with the current incumbents in that fine institution, neither of those options is going to happen any day soon, so look forward to further extensions next year.

If the EU have hope that a GE at this time will change that position they will be sorely disappointed and as for another referendum, we cannot even resolve 'honouring' the first one, there is no chance that a second one will affect anything.
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Old 28th Oct 2019, 10:32
  #3660 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bulldog89 View Post
So no Brexit on Oct the 31st...honestly disappointed...too many political games in place to me...
Same here.
Les rosbifs sont toujours là ;-)
A little bit of schadenfreude though, at seeing BJ and his gullible cronies not meeting their questionnable goal of "leaving on the 31st, period !".
And the anti tax evasion measures will be implemented in January, so much for those billionnaire MPs...

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