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BREXIT

Old 9th Sep 2019, 18:46
  #2101 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PC767 View Post

The UK isnít asking for more time, neither is the UK government. Opposition MPs and a hand full of Conservative MPs in parliament are. Unfortunately they are the majority in parliament. Johnson wants an election on 15th October which will effectively be a second referendum. The house will either be elected to leave or remain and Brexit can finally be dealt with. Unfortunately the opposition donít wish for this, maybe because polls show Johnson would be a runaway winner. And Brexit would follow. Those polls in favour of Johnson suggest that the public still want Brexit.
The Govt in UK is those who command the majority in Parliment. As Bojo doesn't command it then how can he be considered the Govt ?
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 19:13
  #2102 (permalink)  
 
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Because he / they are the elected Government to rule over the Country.
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 19:59
  #2103 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Because he / they are the elected Government to rule over the Country.
Remind us who elected Boris Johnson to rule over the country?
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 20:49
  #2104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bulldog89 View Post


Not in my power, sorry, but why is the UK asking for another extension if you want to leave? It's would be the second one...
Pretty difficult to understand from the EU perspective to be honest...I mean, it's the UK asking for more time, not the EU.

I suspect Brexit was an internal plan made up by NF and BJ to get more votes but slipped out of control when the people really voted to leave. Now everyone knows it will be a mess and the UK politicians are waiting for the EU to terminate the UK membership, so when things will go baaaaaadly they could always blame the EU for kicking them out when the UK wasn't ready. The British public will fall for it as it's the most convenient truth to believe and the directors of this catastrophe will keep their votes...
Bulldog89. I'm sure you know that we have a majority "leave" population but a "remain" parliament. That is the problem. However, all the current political chicanery has effectively made a mockery of voting if the wishes of the majority is brushed aside and in future, I think that the a significant proportion of UK voting public will simply not bother to vote. Many of those who will continue to vote will do so for their own "tactical reasons" or their own "I'll teach you" feel-good factor. We may even compete with your country of residence and have several short-lived coalition governments on a more frequent basis. Having lived and worked on three continents over the past 56 (working) years, both in State owned enterprises and the private sector, I have experienced governmental inefficiency and profligate spending in that sector and the "survival of the fittest/close-to your-use-by-date" in the other. In both cases on all three continents I found that if you treated people with the respect they deserved, they reciprocated. However, the human race is "tribal" although thankfully we are not as warlike as we used to be but groups will find something to "take sides" over. If it is not football/cricket/rugby teams etc, it will be political parties, religions or other likes/dislikes. These "differences are invariably magnified, and sometimes abused, by the anonymity of those behind their keyboards. This probably wouldn't happen if the protagonists were in "face to face" discussions as "eye contact" is a great interpreter of real intention.
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 22:00
  #2105 (permalink)  

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Remind us who elected Boris Johnson to rule over the country?
Do stop pretending you don't understand the political system in this country.

We, the public, vote for our political representatives. Generally the party which wins the largest number of seats forms the government. The leader of that party automatically becomes the Prime Minister. In the same way as Gordon (I screwed your pensions) Brown became Labour leader after Tony Bliar and automatically became Prime Minister.

We, the population, do not elect our Prime Ministers.

But then you knew that , didn't you?
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 22:06
  #2106 (permalink)  
 
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Same lot who voted for Callaghan, Brown, Major, Douglas -Hume. We have had so many coups your head spins.
They will say anything to further their arguments and ignorance isn't any obstacle to the ignorant.
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 22:10
  #2107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
Me neither, Bulldog89. 17.4 million UK "leave" voters will be eternally grateful
and the non-grateful 44 million, or so, other UK citizens should accept this piece of political crass stupidity?

Then they should have got off their fat lazy asses and went out to vote, HOWEVER as with polls when a tiny sample of voters are sampled, the result tends to be indicative of the larger vote, therefore although only 17.4 million voted leave, if the other 44 million lazy asses had got off the sofa, the percentages would not be much different and we would still be leaving.
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 22:34
  #2108 (permalink)  
 
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It looks like the DUP, the party that played a significant role in creating and sustaining the Brexit omnishables, is getting concerned that it’s about to be thrown under the Brexit Routemaster now that their 10 votes are worth zero.

The mood music from HM Gov seems to suggest that they are at the very least, considering the option of potentially dipping their toe into something that might possibly look a bit like the original Withdrawal Agreement containing a Backstop that kept just Northern Ireland aligned with EU regulations. An agreement that the EU and UK Gov were both comfortable with but, alas Arlene et al were not, thus leading to the UK asking for a change to extend the backstop to the whole of the UK.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...-dup-1.4013028

Not a good week for the party, their day in the sun has passed and a spot light has been shone by the BBC on their alleged links to loyalist paramilitaries during the troubles.

JAS
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 22:50
  #2109 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Just a spotter View Post
Not a good week for the DUP party, their day in the sun has passed and a spot light has been shone by the BBC on their 'alleged' links to loyalist paramilitaries during the troubles.

JAS
I almost feel sympathy for them, oh wait I don't, the views and comments I have listened to and heard over decades from their members would make Nazi party members wonder were they too moderate. Their brand of Apartheid or Orange rule would sicken most people.

DUP have done everything to destroy peace in NI, watching them fail miserably and London tell them GFY has its own moment. Reality is nobody wants their brand, moderate Unionism has had enough of them which is why I see a vote on a United Ireland in 5 years.
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Old 9th Sep 2019, 23:57
  #2110 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
Except that No.10 currently only expect to win 300 seats...
Maybe so but it depends on the rest, if the Brexit party can pick up seats from those of strong leave constituencies from labour or the Lib Dems strong remain constituencies from those that do not want Corbyn or the fence sitting. Though in fairness those that have played musical parties may find themselves sitting in the sidelines as they are deselected by the membership, such a Labours Liverpool MP who now represents 6% of the Liverpool electorate as a Lib Dem.
Personally I feel that any MP seeking to swap parties are in breach of contract with their electorate and should be made to stand in a snap by-election to seek having their position confirmed.
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Old 10th Sep 2019, 00:26
  #2111 (permalink)  
 
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Labour want an election before brexit to ensure the brexit party split the conservative vote.
The conservatives want to leave the EU before an election to negate brexit.
The remainers are hypocrites who pretend they represent rationality and support democracy.
Bercrow is a slavering slave to his over sexed wife.
Read my column in next week's Economist, or my interview with Malcolm Gladwell.
Is there no one honest left?
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Old 10th Sep 2019, 05:32
  #2112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post



Then they should have got off their fat lazy asses and went out to vote, HOWEVER as with polls when a tiny sample of voters are sampled, the result tends to be indicative of the larger vote, therefore although only 17.4 million voted leave, if the other 44 million lazy asses had got off the sofa, the percentages would not be much different and we would still be leaving.
The next referendum may well prove your point. We shall see. Democracy and belated honesty at work.
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Old 10th Sep 2019, 06:54
  #2113 (permalink)  
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https://www.politico.eu/article/brus...t-horror-show/

The U.K. will almost certainly get another Brexit extension — but don't ask the EU to admit it...... “I don't believe that if the U.K. asks for an extension we'll say no," one EU27 diplomat said. "The length of the extension and the purpose is another issue."......

The Brexit coordinator in the European Parliament, Guy Verhofstadt, spoke out over the weekend in support of Le Drian's tough line against granting an extension without some sign of major progress from the British side.

Several EU officials said that the deepening political crisis in London offers proof that French President Emmanuel Macron was correct to oppose a longer extension when the European Council voted in April to postpone the cliff-edge date to October 31......

“The French stand is getting more and more traction," an aide to Verhofstadt said. "They start to see that Macron was right when, at the last summit, he did not want to grant an unconditional extension to the U.K. and wanted to finish the business. An extension is impossible unless there is fundamental change, and not under the current circumstances. The EU has a deal and the deal is on the table.”........

Still, a second EU diplomat said that the view in Paris is a bit more textured than recent public pronouncements suggest and that the Elysťe would be open to a brief extension, perhaps up to two months, in order to let the U.K. hold a national election and create conditions for a final Brexit agreement by the time EU27 leaders hold their December summit.

"In this moment, Paris is calling the shots; Germany will follow the consensus," the second diplomat said. "But Paris’ position is more nuanced than it seems."

"Just a few weeks," the diplomat added, predicting what Macron would accept. "The deal has to be done at December’s Council."......

[ORAC note, December Council meeting is 13th December. Assuming Election day would have to be NLT 6th Dec, working backwards 25 working days the campaign would have to start NLT.... 31st October....]










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Old 10th Sep 2019, 07:56
  #2114 (permalink)  
 
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Then they should have got off their fat lazy asses and went out to vote
Remember that there were many Britons living and working in the EU who were disenfranchised because they had been away from the Mother Ship for 15 years or more. Had UK law not forbidden us to do so, the polls would show a substantially higher percentage participation and might well have had a different outcome. Do not confuse laziness, lack of interest or motivation with being legally impotent.
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Old 10th Sep 2019, 08:35
  #2115 (permalink)  
 
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This is how to solve Brexit, Scotland already on the way out after a poor meeting with Belgium, England may do better.
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Old 10th Sep 2019, 08:36
  #2116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Remind us who elected Boris Johnson to rule over the country?
We know who elected Boris Johnson as leader of his party; the same cohorts as voted all the other "installed" PMs through history.

However, the problem is with Johnson that he appears to believe he is President, and can do pretty much what he likes without reference to parliament. Seemingly his good mate Donald Trump has coached him. Sadly for Johnson, he has learned over the past two weeks that he isn't President and can't steamroller his plans through. For heavens sake his record on Commons votes since he took office is "played 6, lost 6, drawn 0". He'd be in the relegation zone of the Premier League with that performance, and the manager (Dominic Cummings?) would have been sacked by now!
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Old 10th Sep 2019, 09:22
  #2117 (permalink)  
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A facile view ATNotts.

Boris took over with a paper majority of one, including all the remainers such as Grieve and the votes of the DUP. They chances of passing any legislation was negligible and an election in the near future certain. All he could do, and is doing, is preparing the ground for the election.

All the fuss, votes and furore over the last few weeks has been to paint the campaign as one of Boris and the people against all the other parties plotting to frustrate the will of the people - and according to the polls and the commentators that campaign is succeeding. Any future court action would just add the judiciary and “unelected judges” to those plotting against the people.

The campaign is also, as was previously that of Ed Miliband and Labour, being seen as that of chasing the “35%”. That being the figure that will win a majority. Miliband failed, but with the remain vote split between all the other parties - the main two of which have declared not to work with each other - and BXP supporters seeming willing to back Boris in such a fight - Boris could well win.
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Old 10th Sep 2019, 09:29
  #2118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post



Then they should have got off their fat lazy asses and went out to vote, HOWEVER as with polls when a tiny sample of voters are sampled, the result tends to be indicative of the larger vote, therefore although only 17.4 million voted leave, if the other 44 million lazy asses had got off the sofa, the percentages would not be much different and we would still be leaving.
Nutloose, I couldn't be bothered to point out to C J that in 2016, according to the NAO, the UK population numbered 65.6 million. Of that 65.6 million, 20.6 million were under 18 leaving a possible voting public of 45 million. 17.4 million voted "leave" and 16.1 million voted "remain". That leaves 27. 6 million who decided not to register a legal vote - not a "non-grateful 44 million". Only a 62.7% error by C J but hey, when you are set in your ways/views, it all makes sense.
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Old 10th Sep 2019, 09:42
  #2119 (permalink)  
 
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The original objection to an Ireland only backstop was that it would mean a hard border down the Irish Sea with immigration controls both ways. That doesn't seem to be a problem now.
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Old 10th Sep 2019, 09:49
  #2120 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Boris could well win.
I tend to agree. Boris is a professional liar, he earned a living doing that. Cummings has proved previously that honesty is for losers. As an election strategy. Boris (we the people) versus Parliament ticks all the populist boxes and could easily follow the Trump playbook. We'll get the Irish to build a border and they can pay for it, drain the swamp of remainers etc.
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