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Anti Vaxxers

Old 11th Mar 2019, 04:30
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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I have received multiple vaccinations in my lifetime.
I have twelve close relatives and friends who have endured a similar immunisation regime.
My niece's daughter has just had all of her prescribed shots for a child of her age - 2-1/2.

None of us are autistic.
Clear proof that vaccination does not cause autism.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 05:28
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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To pile on a bit...
I'm old enough that I got the measles and mumps before there was a vaccination available - it wasn't a big deal for me - I missed some school and messed up my perfect attendance record, but I was young and otherwise healthy at the time. Not everyone is so lucky. Neighbor lady (adult) that was fighting cancer got the measles at the about same time I did and it very nearly killer her.
I had a cousin die of the flu. I had a co-worker who got polio before there was vaccination - he was lucky, he could still function (sort of), but suffered the ill effects for the rest of his life.
OTOH, I haven't had the flu in 30 years, possibly because I get the shot each year. The last time I did get it, it was devastating. ~20 years ago my wife very nearly died when she got the flu (I came home from work and found her - incoherent with a temperature over 105F - and drove her to urgent care - had I come home an hour later the result might have been deadly). She also gets the shot each year now.
Sure, we could go back to the days when less than half of the children who were born alive made it to 5 years, when women routinely kicked out half a dozen or more kids so they could be reasonably sure a few would make it to adulthood (and a large percentage of those women died in childbirth).
Personally I like the current system better.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 06:06
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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The body deals with diseases naturally in the majority of cases, kids that eat dirt and play outside get natural Immunization, creating protection against future threats.
How do you explain the high mortality rate from disease in less developed countries with poor sanitation?


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Old 11th Mar 2019, 08:17
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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None of these replies to my last post have said anything about either of the videos I posted. Why not? Did any of you even watch either of them?

I have never said I was against vaccinations for diseases like polio, smallpox and others. There’s taking action against reasonable risks and there’s extracting the urine. We can’t vaccinate against every threat we come across in life, there will always be some death and injury. Living means we have to make choices, are we to leave it to politicians and corporations to make these choices for us? Yeah, we’re in good hands I’m sure. Not.

Even if there really is an increase in those things, why blame it on a benign, life-saving and natural process like immunization, rather than all the other huge changes in our environment in the last few 100 years?
Double Barrel you say with certainty that Immunization is ‘benign’ and a ‘natural process’. Mmm it’s certainly not the latter and there’s tons of evidence that it’s hardly the former. To reiterate, I’m generally in favour of vaccines that combat diseases that pose a threat to us, but to blindly ignore the many thousands, if not (in reality) millions of adverse reactions to vaccines, is reckless and arrogant imo.

You are convinced that (unlimited?) vaccines can be shot safely into our bodies, well I’m all for free will, go right ahead, but just don’t try to force this dogmatic thinking on me.

None of you have, for a second, considered the possibility that you may one day find yourself questioning your faith in vaccines. God forbid that something happens to your kids, or your grandkids. You totally ignore the pain and suffering that those who have experienced loss and suffering due to vaccines, how many of them would agree with your description - ‘benign’ - good luck with that! Please watch the second video and tell me that you’re happy with things as they are.

It it may be that this pain and suffering is necessary, as part of living in a community - some suffer for the greater good. But trying to hush them up or pay them off and gag them are not what civilised people should be advocating.



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Old 11th Mar 2019, 08:27
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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So which ones do you think we shouldn't give kids?
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 08:35
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
How do you explain the high mortality rate from disease in less developed countries with poor sanitation?
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I was talking about normal playing outside, rather than being ‘protected’, never being allowed to come in contact with ‘germs’ or ‘nasty things that might hurt you’. Not being forced to drink water that animals piss and defecate in and surviving on a diet of barely anything!

I can’t really explain the latter, but I just ponder the quiet acceptance of such reality and the equal acceptance that the worlds richest man has a personal worth of $150 billion.






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Old 11th Mar 2019, 08:45
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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They don't against the diseases that kids are vaccinated against.

You tend not to have to force kids to drink and eat shite if they live in the country side. The little sods ingest it pretty much however much effort you put into stopping them.

I can remember as a kid my cousin showing me how to drink milk direct from a cow in the field...…… Got TB as a kid from unpasteurised milk but there we go.

There are loads of vaccination programs in Africa with utterly incredible success rates with the local diseases which first world countries don't vaccinate against.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 08:49
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
So which ones do you think we shouldn't give kids?
I’m in no way qualified to say, but equally, I would suggest that pharmaceutical companies and doctors that are invested in them should not be making such decisions. I would suggest an ‘independent’ panel of experts and laypeople including doctors, judges and various others including dare I say it parents of victims from both sides of the argument could probably come to a reasonable decision.


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Old 11th Mar 2019, 08:57
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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I would suggest that pharmaceutical companies and doctors that are invested in them should not be making such decisions
They aren't already.....

would suggest an ‘independent’ panel of experts and laypeople including doctors, judges and various others including dare I say it parents of victims
Doctors and legal types are involved already.

Parents of victims... no chance of getting a sensible outcome. It would be like getting aircraft crash relatives involved with air safety and crash investigation.

Maybe you should include the world wide federation of pubic hair waxers into the mix as well.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 09:08
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
They aren't already.....
.
Who is involved with making such decisions?
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 09:21
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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Is it not NICE that makes the decisions in the UK?
"NICE committees and working groups are made up of health, social care and other professionals and practitioners, patients, service users, carers and members of the public, and technical experts"
https://www.nice.org.uk/get-involved...in-a-committee

.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 09:25
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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Well you have MHRA which deals with the licensing ie that its safe etc.

http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/groups/c...con2031677.pdf

then in the UK NICE decides if the product is cost effective for what it does and will be used in the NHS.

https://www.nice.org.uk/

And the Department of Health and other political inputs but they are usually a budget control influence ie NICE may say that a cancer drug is cost effective etc but there isn't enough cash for it to be used. Or it may be political that IVF treatment is limited by age or number of cycles.

Blues and Twos will know more about it than me.

But its certainly not the case that Pharmacy company's get to announce that they have a new vaccine and the next week it gets rolled out to every child in the country.

Last edited by tescoapp; 11th Mar 2019 at 10:14.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 11:00
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, tescoapp and previous posters have explained the set-up for regulation and release of therapeutic drugs in the UK. Pharma is one of the most tightly and widely regulated industries in the world. Often, drugs are or are intended to be released internationally so multiple national regulators are involved e.g. American FDA, Japanese PMDA etc.
Frequent, detailed and repeated process and facility audits are performed. The companies being audited do not need to be given notice of these regulatory audits, the inspectors can and do just turn up.
Audit results and details of observations are published in the public domain. The regulators can shut down a company's operations immediately if they find issues which are serious enough.

Fun, fun, fun.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 11:31
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
Yes, tescoapp and previous posters have explained the set-up for regulation and release of therapeutic drugs in the UK. Pharma is one of the most tightly and widely regulated industries in the world. Often, drugs are or are intended to be released internationally so multiple national regulators are involved e.g. American FDA, Japanese PMDA etc.
Frequent, detailed and repeated process and facility audits are performed. The companies being audited do not need to be given notice of these regulatory audits, the inspectors can and do just turn up.
Audit results and details of observations are published in the public domain. The regulators can shut down a company's operations immediately if they find issues which are serious enough.

Fun, fun, fun.
All of the above applied to the Australian pharmaceuticals industry too and everyone was touchie-feelie happy until the lid was blown on Pan Pharmaceuticals in 2003-03.
Jim Selim built a tiny company, Pan Pharmaceuticals Ltd, with four employees, to a $500 million corporation with factories in four countries in less than 20 years.

Then following reports of adverse reactions to some of their products audit inspections revealed evidence of widespread and serious deficiencies in the company's manufacturing and quality control procedures.
Some of their products contained no active ingredients to speak of.
Others had widely varying concentrations of active ingredients.

The company's manufacturing licence was suspended, initially for 6 months to address the quality and safety concerns posed by the manufacturing breaches.An unannounced audit of all of Pan's operations was therefore planned to take place in the week of 24 February 2003. Due to objections by the company, TGA officers were only able to examine limited records on that occasion and the audit was limited to two days, 24 and 25 February.
The manufacturer was able to thwart the activities of the investigators.
However, they were able to take with them a range of data which after extensive analysis, highlighted areas of concern to be targeted for careful investigation in a further audit. Another unannounced audit was completed over the period 7 - 14 April 2003 - six weeks later.
Thereafter, the auditors prepared a detailed report of the audit and its findings. By the very nature of the extent and systemic reach of the problems identified during the audits, preparation of the report required painstakingly attention to detail and was a time consuming process.The Expert Group met on 23 April 2003, and recommended to the TGA that the manufacturing breaches were of such consequence that it was considered that ongoing availability of Pan Pharmaceuticals Ltd's products represented very serious risks to the community. They advised that the risks would increase over time, and that they could be realised at any time. Following this advice, and other matters raised by the audit reports, the TGA moved to immediately suspend the manufacturing licence of Pan Pharmaceuticals Ltd and commence a recall of all products made by the company since 1 May 2002 (when the company's last satisfactory GMP audit had been completed).

In the end, they were fined $10M (that's 10/500 = 2% of the company value) and only after people had fallen ill and multiple hospital admissions.
It also resulted in the largest product recall in Australian history, at that time.

And it all happened DESPITE the supposedly tight regulations, random audits. etc. etc. etc.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 11:37
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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But to note there is absolutely zero control over the herbal crap. Supplies of that come under the food laws and a such they won't be looked at until public health get wind of a cluster issue. Then to get them off the market they need to use trading standards regs.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 11:39
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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And as a follow up, Pan were later awarded $50M + $5M costs because the Therapeutic Goods Authority exceeded their authority in suspending their manufacturing licence.
The allegations concerning their QA problems were never refuted.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 11:55
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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To be honest after reading what your aviation authority get up to that really doesn't supprise me.

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Old 11th Mar 2019, 12:01
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Just googled the list of products that pan produced

I would label them herbal crap.

Shark liver oil FFS.

That crap has minimal control over it in the UK as well.

It's not the type of drugs we are on about. The stuff we are on about is controlled medcines which require a doctor's prescription and supervision to take..
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 12:57
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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Ostensibly you are correct.
Unfortunately the 152 pages of their recalled products concealed numerous "Prescription Only" products including such things as anti-depressants.

You needed to look a little closer.

I think that I remember that after the re-call they ended up producing just the " herbal crap " that you mention.
Prior to that, it was both.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 13:14
  #180 (permalink)  

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I'm an anti-Vaxxer.

I get my wife to clean the carpets.....
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