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Anti Vaxxers

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Anti Vaxxers

Old 12th Mar 2019, 17:17
  #181 (permalink)  
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8819526.html

Italy bans unvaccinated children from school amid measles epidemic
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 14:39
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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Mr. Spock turns to Louis Pasteur and says: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."



I tend to agree. (Especially when extinction-level epidemiological events threaten, c.f. Ebola, Marburg, etc.)

- Ed
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 05:44
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting announcement by Robert Kennedy jr regarding Gardasil.
Can of worms me thinks

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Old 27th Mar 2019, 06:51
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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Rockland County NY, bars unvaccinated children from public spaces and declares state of emergency following a severe outbreak of measles(153 confirmed cases).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47715169

Hopefully this is the start of a public wake-up to the threat that will make being an "anti-vaxxer" socially unacceptable and legally actionable as both child-abuse and attempted murder.

PDR
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 07:03
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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While sitting firmly in the pro-Vax camp, I do have a question.

When did common measles move from being ranked alongside the common cold or, at worst, flu, and up to being a serious illness up there with cholera?
I had both measles and German measles as a kid and I don't think anything was really thought of it as being much for a healthy young lad such as myself (at the time).

For girls and women it was different, especially pregnant women with German measles.
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 07:20
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ethel the Aardvark View Post
Interesting announcement by Robert Kennedy jr regarding Gardasil.
Can of worms me thinks
If thatís a recent article, do you have a link please?
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 07:35
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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"Can of worms" meaning what, exactly?

You are being a bit sibylline there, Ethel. Are you trying to say that RFK, Jr., has brought some hidden truths to light, or what?

The daughter of a close friend died young from a cancer probably caused by HPV, and that was a real tragedy on multiple levels. The vaccine was not available for her generation. To not use it now because of very slight risks of side-effects seems quite foolish to me, but then I am not an anti-vaxxer.

Swimming is taught in German schools as part of the standard curriculum. Not learning to swim can cause drowning, but a side-effect of learning to swim can be the sharing of a swimming pool by young girls with young boys while all are lightly clad. Some Muslim parents have raised religious objections to swimming lessons on the basis of immorality that goes against Islam. Better possible drowning than mixed-sex sharing of a pool, I guess. They sorted that one out somehow, probably by segregating Muslim girls from other children, but it's still required for basic swimming to be taught.

Here in Germany vaccination for schoolchildren is recommended, not required. If there is an outbreak of measles, though, non-immunized children can be excluded from attending school. Children 15 and older can usually choose immunization over the objections of their parents.

I was sat at table once with two Doktors, one of dentistry, the other of medicine, and a woman of about the same age who also practiced the healing arts: aromatherapy, reiki (energy healing), massage, and a few other things too, most of those things pretty much hocus-pocus that works just fine through the placebo effect. The two real Doktors were chatting about some recent development in medicine, traditional medicine, when Frau Hokuspokus chipped in with her own take on this as a fellow health professional.

Dental school: six years, plus at least another year for a Doktortitel. Medical school: more than that! Hocus-pocusology: up to you, basically, with some training required, but nothing like years in a Medezinische Hochschule: 80 students in, 20 graduates out.

That conversation was like having some guy who flies ultra-lights happily sharing his deep and valuable insights into aviation with two senior jet Captains; I was privileged to be the fly on the wall watching the two Doktors doing a slow burn. God help us if that hokus-pocusologist ever gets into anti-vaxxing, because she will spread the gospel all over town quite confident that she is doing good.

Stan, just Google "rfk gardasil" when you can view a lot of stuff from both sides of the debate, including a lot of very fervent testimony against vaccination. If I wanted to I could link a lot of stuff for vaccination, but that would mean ignoring very many articles that make strongly emotional cases against vaccination.

It's like anything, really. Want to join Amway? You can find everything from Amway being the gateway to riches, to its being just another pyramid scheme that will rob you of time and money. If you want to believe, you will believe; if you want to do some simple math, or try to fold a sheet of paper 16 times, then you will see the obvious flaw in a pyramid scheme.
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 08:14
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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When did common measles move from being ranked alongside the common cold or, at worst, flu, and up to being a serious illness up there with cholera?
I had both measles and German measles as a kid and I don't think anything was really thought of it as being much for a healthy young lad such as myself (at the time).
Because back then society accepted that a few deaths / disablements from measles was nothing compared to other "nastier" diseases. Life is now held in higher esteem - we expect all our kids to survive to adulthood. When I was young society was more accepting of the occasional death.

Look at the number of RAF aircraft crashes in 1954. My father was an RAF fireman then and says that's when the saying "we pay pilots more because we don't have to pay them for as long" came into being. (Aviation content!!)
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 09:03
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by radar101 View Post
Because back then society accepted that a few deaths / disablements from measles was nothing compared to other "nastier" diseases. Life is now held in higher esteem - we expect all our kids to survive to adulthood. When I was young society was more accepting of the occasional death.

Look at the number of RAF aircraft crashes in 1954. My father was an RAF fireman then and says that's when the saying "we pay pilots more because we don't have to pay them for as long" came into being. (Aviation content!!)
Hmmm. So who, precisely, was it that made the decision not to accept the risk any longer ?
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 09:16
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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It's simply advancement in knowledge and technology over time.
Prior to the development of antibiotics pretty much any disease was 'common'.
Why do nothing when we can prevent?
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 09:43
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post


If thatís a recent article, do you have a link please?
I was intrigued too, and found this article. Depressing reading from a supposedly enlightened man.

https://www.sciencealert.com/robert-...t-vaccinations
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 09:46
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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Chuks
Here in Germany vaccination for schoolchildren is recommended, not required. If there is an outbreak of measles, though, non-immunized children can be excluded from attending school. Children 15 and older can usually choose immunization over the objections of their parents.
I much prefer this approach to the one taken in the U.S, itís the same in the UK and I hope it remains that way.

Thanks for helping me find that latest bit about RKennedy Jr, here is a response to it https://www.sciencealert.com/robert-...t-vaccinations , though I wouldnít put too much value on that article either as she is just as biased as Kennedy is, but in the other direction.

I want to make two points.

1/ Would PDR wish to jail my friend who has a (grown) child who became autistic, with symptoms starting shortly after having the MMR vaccine, if they refused to give the jab to their other younger sibling?

2/ Bias is immensely powerful. It can become a dogma.
https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/t...e-61199bfbe325

Our minds are constantly duping us.


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Old 27th Mar 2019, 10:10
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Chuks
rfk jr announces facts against the Gardasil brand and encourages drug companies too sue him, obviously he is very confident with his statement
hence Ďcan of wormsí
I saw the link on utube. (How do you share a utube link on an iPhone)
hope he is not right about his facts!!
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 10:11
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post

2/ Bias is immensely powerful. It can become a dogma.
https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/t...e-61199bfbe325

Why did millions wonder if Trump colluded with Rusia, well, perhaps becuase

1. Russia did set out to interfere with the outcome of the election
2. Trump almost certainly benefited from that interference
3. Trump falsely denied that there was interference - with no evidence, just knee jerk denial
4. If true it would have huge consequences

Therefore it would have been utterly irresponsible not to hold a formal investigation

Last edited by double_barrel; 27th Mar 2019 at 10:44.
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 10:29
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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I’m not from a scientific background, but my understanding is that a lot of the MMR/autism panic was partly fuelled by the fact that Autism tends to become apparent, and symptoms emerge, at roughly the same age that the second dose of triple vaccination is administered - around 4 years old.

Mrs BBE and I wrestled with our consciences for a while about the risks and with reports of the possible connections in the media. What finally convinced us was a nursing friend of ours who told us she had cared for a least 4 children who had been affected by measles, two of whom died and the other two were left severely disabled. It brought home to us that even in the modern era, it can still be a very serious disease.
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 10:54
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
Why did millions wonder if Trump colluded with Rusia, well, perhaps becuase

1. Russia did set out to interfere with the outcome of the election
2. Trump denied 1 with no evidence at all, just knee jerk denial
3. If true it would have huge consequences

Therefore it would have been utterly irresponsible not to hold a formal investigation
1/ IF they did, then I doubt it was on a scale that the US has done to many other countries. The point is that the dems were so angry, so disappointed at Trumpís win that they couldnít accept it. If theyíd taken a step back and looked in a mirror, they would have seen that it was self inflicted!
2/ Talking of evidence, Mueller must have turned up every possible stone, but found no real evidence.
3/ It wasnít. Why should the consequences be huge if it were true? Israel interferes with the US constantly, why is that overlooked? Bias, thatís why. Hypocrisy. Thatís why itís so important!

Hillary simply couldnít accept (and still canít) that she lost her chance to be President, the dems would have won easily if theyíd put their weight behind Saunders imo. By scuppering his chance, she scuppered the dems.

They were SO convinced!

You are probably thinking that Iím pro Trump? Think again.
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 14:00
  #197 (permalink)  
 
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In the States "they" are the CDC. The head of the CDC is a distinguished virologist with no obvious ties to Big Pharma. Over the CDC is the DHHS, headed by a former President of the US division of Eli Lilly, very Big Pharma!

It is a free country. If you want to shove a jade egg up your wazoo, feel free to do so. Beautiful, rich, glamorous Gwyneth Paltrow thinks that is a very good idea, since she happens to sell such jade eggs for internal use. Some gynecologist nobody has ever heard of says not to do that, because microporous jade can be a very efficient disease vector. The two got into a feud a while back over this, when Gwynnie asked her "So what do you know?" and drew the shorter straw with that. https://www.vox.com/2018/9/6/1782692...row-settlement
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 14:06
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post
1/ Would PDR wish to jail my friend who has a (grown) child who became autistic, with symptoms starting shortly after having the MMR vaccine, if they refused to give the jab to their other younger sibling?


Yes. Your friend had a child who became autistic. Your child was given the MMR vaccine. There is not a shred of evidence that these two events are causally connected.

PDR
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 14:18
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I was given a polio vaccination when I was a child. Thick, wavy, dark-brown hair, skin smooth as silk .... After that shot my thinning hair all turned grey, and my skin ... ever seen an alligator leather handbag?

That is is pretty much what has happened to everyone else who got that shot when I did. Some, in fact, have died!
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 14:21
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post


You are probably thinking that Iím pro Trump? Think again.
I assure you I have not given your politics a moments thought.
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