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Now this is a protest I like

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Now this is a protest I like

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Old 11th Jan 2019, 11:24
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Captivep View Post
But entirely irrelevant.

Whether or not you believe it's a safety or a revenue issue the essential fact is that you can only be caught by a camera if you are breaking the law.

I accept that this can happen accidentally, but speeding is, generally, a strict liability offence. I've been caught twice by cameras because I didn't see the signs. No one to blame but myself.

Lol.

Once bitten, twice....
Have you ever thought about some training in driving observation then.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...=154&t=1775484

Section 172. Roll over and ....the law is an ass.

Last edited by weemonkey; 11th Jan 2019 at 11:30. Reason: advanced observation link from pistonheads added.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 11:56
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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A friend is an ex traffic cop. In the 20+ years he was working in traffic he sights only one fatal accident he attended as being a direct result of speeding. That's one out of around 100 fatalities. He says that while speed cameras in built-up urban areas and particularly around schools are a good thing, he is adamant that those on open highways are a nuisance and potentially counter-productive. His opinion is a commonly held one amongst his fellow officers, I gather.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 12:13
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jez d View Post
A friend is an ex traffic cop. In the 20+ years he was working in traffic he sights only one fatal accident he attended as being a direct result of speeding. That's one out of around 100 fatalities. He says that while speed cameras in built-up urban areas and particularly around schools are a good thing, he is adamant that those on open highways are a nuisance and potentially counter-productive. His opinion is a commonly held one amongst his fellow officers, I gather.
A90 arterial route between Dundee and Perth always has a mobile vending machine parked somewhere along it.

The villages in Perthshire are always calling out for traffic calming measures.

Now why do you think the camera vans stick to the main route
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 12:19
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by eal401 View Post
Exceeding the speed limit directly contributes to 5% of casualties - a statistic that doesn't really align to the reliance on these cameras and the resources allocated to them.
If, as suggested, speed cameras bring in far more in fines than they cost to operate, then there is a potential benefit of an up to 5% reduction in the number of casualties, at no cost to the taxpayer. Sounds like a win-win to me.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 12:31
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Don't think they really thought this one through.

Who pays to buy/maintain the equipment? The taxpayer.

Who is protesting? Taxpayers.

Who will get the damage bill? Taxpayers.

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Old 11th Jan 2019, 13:19
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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I contend that speed in itself is never the problem, it is only whether a driver decides to adopt a safe speed or not. On a given day, in specific weather conditions 100mph might be safe, in low lying mist, it might be 30 mph or less.

It was my involvement with our local parish council and parking enforcement that really brought home to me, the pure revenue generation aspect of parking (and speeding fines.) The residents of the village had requested that more control be exercised over visitors blocking access to private housing and emergency vehicles. Parking enforment wanted to plaster parking signage, lines, bays, yellow, dotted and white on all streets in the village. This would then allow enforcement to fine anyone illegally parked. (Resident or visitor alike)

The village is in a historic, conservation area and in close proximity to an SSSI. The parish council refused to permit the grossly obtrusive signage and lineage, Parking enforcement response? "If we cannot enforce it" (ie generate revenue) "we are not interested". The police also could not act since the conditions for the law to be enforced had not been established. Consequently, cameras, signage and lineage will only appear where revenue can be generated. Any other reason proposed is just window dressing.

IG
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 13:29
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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The French have previous form...

In Paris some years ago, an attempt to introduce wheel clamps for parking malefactors was greeted by a spontaneous campaign of superglueing the locks which caused no end of grief for a while but swiftly led to the abandonment of wheel clamps.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 13:34
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by weemonkey View Post
Lol.

Once bitten, twice....
Have you ever thought about some training in driving observation then.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...=154&t=1775484

Section 172. Roll over and ....the law is an ass.
Have you ever thought about any training in grammar?

Seriously, though, I'm not sure of the point you were trying to make. I acknowledged that, twice in my driving history, I failed to notice that the speed limit had changed on a road and was subsequently caught by a mobile camera van. I have no doubt that I have failed to notice speed limit changes on other occasions; similarly, I have no doubt that everyone else has too. My point was that speeding is an offence of strict liability.

I always find it amazing that many drivers consider that, uniquely, speeding offences are an unfair imposition on really good drivers like themselves. Until, or unless, parliament decrees a quality threshold when it comes to the driving of speeding offenders, it couldn't matter less.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 14:01
  #29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by olympus View Post
The French have previous form...

In Paris some years ago, an attempt to introduce wheel clamps for parking malefactors was greeted by a spontaneous campaign of superglueing the locks which caused no end of grief for a while but swiftly led to the abandonment of wheel clamps.
I seem to remember the Swedes did similar when they tried to introduce speed cameras, the majority dissappeared soon after beintg erected into the nearest fiord, it cost them so much at the time they abandoned the idea.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 14:36
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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The technology already resides in most vehicles to have gps limited speed via electronic speed control, in a 70 zone nobody can exceed the limit, etc., etc., etc.
Speed zones can be implemented/changed simply by designating the coordinates.

Wouldnt raise any revenue.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 14:55
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fltlt View Post
The technology already resides in most vehicles to have gps limited speed via electronic speed control, in a 70 zone nobody can exceed the limit, etc., etc., etc.
Speed zones can be implemented/changed simply by designating the coordinates.

Wouldnt raise any revenue.
I always wondered why, if exceeding the posted limit was such a heinous crime, such technology has not been explored.

Which does society prefer - a flash and a demand for money in the post, or removal of the issue? (Bearing in mind, most of those cameras grab people in the 30 & 40 zones. 90 on a motorway is far easier to get away with)

Here in Basingstoke, if you do want to speed it is easy anyway - the town's ring road is a racetrack most nights. The local police turn a blind eye.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 15:15
  #32 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
I cut and pasted it verbatim from, erm, the link. Can we take it you haven't actually read this link then ? ....this often helps to ensure clarity and understanding of the contents.. ,
Reading the contents didn't seem to ensure your clarity and understanding of the term "includes". I presume that accidents directly caused by sneezing and trying to get rid of a wasp are also included under "injudicious actions" as described in the report. In other words, there are no specific figures for accidents caused by speeding. Why might that be ?

One of the many factors that causes confusion is the lack of standardisation in how apparently similar roads are categorised. For example, a road restricted to 30mph is not subject to any mandatory signage. It only requires there to be three streetlights up to 200 yards apart. The lamps may be mounted on a post, a building or other structure and any combination constitutes a 30 mph zone as long as there are three or more. The lamps need not be visible in daylight e.g. partially obscured by vegetation or other structures. The lamps need not be evenly spaced or at the same height. Unsurprisingly, the police often site their vans in locations such as I describe. It's not exactly a tax on the stupid where there is clear evidence (IMHO) of entrapment.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 17:13
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Captivep View Post
I always find it amazing that many drivers consider that, uniquely, speeding offences are an unfair imposition on really good drivers like themselves. Until, or unless, parliament decrees a quality threshold when it comes to the driving of speeding offenders, it couldn't matter less.
I'm with you, if you don't want to pay the additional tax don't speed.

For those who consider it unfair then you can challenge the Notice of Intended Prosecution. If you think your NIP is unfair because of signage, or lack of clear signage you get the option to challenge that in magistrates court, and I believe many people have done so successfully, often resulting in a quick bit of foliage cutting.

If you deliberately flout the law and get caught then take the consequences like a grown up and put it down to experience.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 17:30
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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So go on then, all of lemming like proponents of arbitrary velocity limits, you tell us what a safe speed actually is then....
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 17:40
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fltlt View Post
The technology already resides in most vehicles to have gps limited speed via electronic speed control, in a 70 zone nobody can exceed the limit, etc., etc., etc.
Speed zones can be implemented/changed simply by designating the coordinates.

Wouldnt raise any revenue.
Actually the EU specifically states the business case for road usage taxation/speed enforcement for Galileo...
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 18:13
  #36 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by B Fraser View Post
Reading the contents didn't seem to ensure your clarity and understanding of the term "includes". I presume that accidents directly caused by sneezing and trying to get rid of a wasp are also included under "injudicious actions" as described in the report. In other words, there are no specific figures for accidents caused by speeding. Why might that be ?

One of the many factors that causes confusion is the lack of standardisation in how apparently similar roads are categorised. For example, a road restricted to 30mph is not subject to any mandatory signage. It only requires there to be three streetlights up to 200 yards apart. The lamps may be mounted on a post, a building or other structure and any combination constitutes a 30 mph zone as long as there are three or more. The lamps need not be visible in daylight e.g. partially obscured by vegetation or other structures. The lamps need not be evenly spaced or at the same height. Unsurprisingly, the police often site their vans in locations such as I describe. It's not exactly a tax on the stupid where there is clear evidence (IMHO) of entrapment.
Actually, and revelatory though this may be, I am literate enough (just ) to understand what the word "includes "means and I also have a vague understanding of statistics and something called variables.

I would concur, in part, with your subsequent paragraph about how confusion can occur but there again, surely any competent driver would err on the side of caution in a built up area and drive at 30mph anyway.

To answer your question however, or rather, here's a professional answer to your question. This organisation, who may. strangely, have a vested interest in determining if speed was relevant,, should provide helpful answers. But feel free to be dismissive of their database of course. .

https://www.directlinegroup.com/medi.../16032018.aspx
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 18:52
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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The technology already resides in most vehicles to have gps limited speed via electronic speed control, in a 70 zone nobody can exceed the limit, etc., etc., etc.
Speed zones can be implemented/changed simply by designating the coordinates.

Wouldnt raise any revenue.






It would also be dangerous. I can't count the times adding speed got me out of tricky situations; if you are at the limit and a car crosses over the only way to escape may be to accelerate away.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 19:14
  #38 (permalink)  
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The thing that gets me is you can argue the speed limits and enforcement on the grounds of safety, however other countries in Europe do not have the same speed limits, indeed they are often higher and they do not have any increase in road deaths.

The one thing I think would help as has happened in a few European towns is to remove all street markings and road signage, markings etc, without it you naturally slow down and become more traffic aware.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 19:27
  #39 (permalink)  
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Agreed, here incidentally is the research into removing markings erc

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...idents-drivers
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 22:35
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Ok , so how do you interpret this statement, cut and pasted from the link then ?

Maths aren't my strongpoint you understand....

Behaviour or inexperience and injudicious action (which includes travelling too fast for conditions, following too close and exceeding speed limit) were the next most frequently reported categories, involved in 25 and 23 per cent of all accidents respectively. The equivalent figures for fatal accidents, for both of these contributory factors, were higher at 27 and 29 per cent respectively
Which of course proves that slow drivers cause/have 70% of all accidents
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