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Gatwick drone(s)

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Gatwick drone(s)

Old 20th Dec 2018, 08:08
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Gatwick drone(s)

Disruption due to last until at least tomorrow. Police advice is not to attempt to shoot the thing down as "stray bullets"may be dangerous. Really? One marksman, police or military, should be able to do the job ... got to be another reason. Or am I missing something?
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 08:23
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Typical plod bullshit. No "marksman" with a rifle is going to be able to shoot one down reliably if it is moving about in an unpredictable fashion, but a bullet shot up into the air is very unlikely to hurt somebody when it comes down. A good shot with a shotgun might stand a chance of bringing one down if close enough, and the shot fallout is negligible - I've experienced it from across a field on enough occasions. But plod can hardly say anything else, can they?

But what is really needed is a jammer, I can't believe that some hacker hasn't already invented one.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 08:29
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Originally Posted by UniFoxOs View Post
Typical plod bullshit. No "marksman" with a rifle is going to be able to shoot one down reliably if it is moving about in an unpredictable fashion, but a bullet shot up into the air is very unlikely to hurt somebody when it comes down. A good shot with a shotgun might stand a chance of bringing one down if close enough, and the shot fallout is negligible - I've experienced it from across a field on enough occasions. But plod can hardly say anything else, can they?

But what is really needed is a jammer, I can't believe that some hacker hasn't already invented one.
Jammers are available but have unfortunate unintended consequences
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 08:47
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https://www.wired.com/story/watch-an...-weapons-test/



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Old 20th Dec 2018, 08:55
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I think flying a couple of other small drones into it from behind would have done the trick.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 09:16
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Guns, birds... sounds like medieval technologies.

Does anybody there know that high-power microwave anti-drone "guns" are already in place for years? At least in Russia and US - https://www.popsci.com/russia-workin...-microwave-gun
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 09:37
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If this drone(s) is flying as long has been reported, then it is no toy, but a serious bit of kit.

There is more to this than meets the eye.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 09:45
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Throwing up another possibility, extortion racket: "Give us the money or we disrupt your airport."
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 09:45
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Originally Posted by A_Van View Post
Guns, birds... sounds like medieval technologies.

Does anybody there know that high-power microwave anti-drone "guns" are already in place for years? At least in Russia and US - https://www.popsci.com/russia-workin...-microwave-gun
Yes. They are fine for military use. But the last thing you want at an operational civilian airport is someone spraying high power microwaves about.
The only really effective deterrent is to catch the users, make them pay for the disruption they have caused, and put them in jail
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 09:59
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Hi

I make no comment whether these work or not. But as they are just in Horsham. I would of course assume the company have been knocking CAA Gatwick's door
Chess Dynamics

The only fully combat proven counter drone/UAS system in continuous military operations having over 700 confirmed kills

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Old 20th Dec 2018, 10:00
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Suspect it’s either a pair of spotty 17 year old geeks - the type that enjoy hacking into military sites and causing disruption - or it’s a fringe protest group.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 10:17
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I'd disagree... a rifle round will travel several miles and can do fatal damage on returning to earth. Shotgun with the right loading in the right direction with the best back stop would do the trick.
Back in the mid 90's, a spectator was killed by a falling bullet while sitting in the stand watching a game at Ellis Park Stadium, Johannesburg.

The origin was identified by calculation of the incoming angle, the weather conditions and the type of weapon used, and following a search of a small area of the surrounding suburbs, the culprit was arrested. If I remember correctly, the shot was fired almost vertically from the balcony of an apartment building some three miles away, and the noise was heard by neighbours.

IG
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 10:18
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This may have been quoted already https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-drone-threat/
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 10:45
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Back in the mid 90's, a spectator was killed by a falling bullet while sitting in the stand watching a game at Ellis Park Stadium, Johannesburg.
When Tripoli was taken they had to tell the crowds in Gadaffis compound to stop firing into the air as they had killed other revellers.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 11:16
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Picking friend up late last night and airport a nightmare. Helicopter around pretty much all night indicated by a friend who lives close. Slightly surprised they not using heat sensors to pick anybody who is out and about especially at 3am.

This is organised with a clear intention to disrupt. Mate has indicated that half an hour ago the helicopter was up and flying about. Would close all roads that are not the main A23 with a requirement to open you boot and lets check your car if you want to proceed.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 12:18
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Slightly surprised they not using heat sensors to pick anybody who is out and about especially at 3am.
Even pretty unsophisticated "drones" can be flown using full "1st person view" capabilities, so the operator doesn't need to have direct line-of-sight contact with the thing. The operator could be anywhere within 2km (for unmodified equipment) or up to about 7km with just directional antennas added, or up to 40km if the equipment has been modified to increase the transmitted power. The operator of this drone could conceivably be sitting in a shed in Horsham, or in a van parked in the airport car park. There are over a hundred thousand people in that radius, so heat sensors will tell you cock-all.

"Drone jammers" are dubious devices at best. The C2 signal to even cheap toy drones will use a frequency-hopping signal in the 2.4GHz (microwave) band at a duty cycle of less than 10%, with the signal moving to a new spot frequency every 2-10msec (the video system will usually use 5.8GHz, but its not essential to flight). The frequency hooping pattern is a seeded pseudo-random pattern, which is a fancy way of saying that no analysis will be able to predict where it's going next - you need both the algorithm and the seed, and these are unique to each unit. The only real way to "jam" these systems is to swamp the whole 2.4GHz band with very high power levels of broad-spectrum noise. The power levels involved will cook any ready meals which are close to the antenna, and they will blank EVERYTHING which is using the band. The 2.4GHx band is a general-use band used by wifi systems, bluetooth systems, garage door openers, chordless phones, cardiac pacemaker data interfaces and just about everything else which is "wireless". If you wipe out ALL of these the whole airport will stop working anyway, because it is dependant on its wifi systems. "Directional" antennas would be less troublesome but need to know where the target is to be of any use, and that can be problematic. And of course microwave signals are both highly directional AND blocked by a foot of concrete of a foil thickness of metal, so as soon as any bit of building gets between the jammer and the target the C2 link is restored.

But even if you DO manage to disrupt the C2 system it won't necessarily bring the thing down - it depends how the particular item is programmed to respond to loss of signal. signal. Most have a range of options available from "freeze in the hover" through "descend at 0.5m/sec until the ground stops you, then shut down" to "return to base at 300' then descend vertically at 0.5m/sec until landed". And any of these can have the option "return to normal flight if C2 signal is re-acquired", so you jam a target only to have it fully restored as soon at the jammer is switched off or just occulted by terrain.

Radar-trained light machine-guns might work, although the RCS will be rather small, but would you REALLY want something to let fly across heathrow with twenty 5.56 rounds a second? Where would these rounds come down? Who is going to inspect the hundreds of aircraft on stands to confirm that none got caught by friendly fire before they could fly again, never mind the thousands of houses, schools, shops, hotels etc that encircle the place? Is that really a practicable proposition?

Final thought - the reports so far talk of "large drones" whcih seem to have been on-station for a couple of hours or more. If these reports are accurate then these are not toys - they are commercial drones (costing in the 10s of thousands of pounds) because the toys don't have the endurace or the lift-margin to carry bigger batteries to create the endurance. If these ARE commercial-class drones then what we are seeing is not misbehaving spotty teenagers - it would have to be a deliberate act of disruption, either criminal or terrorist IMHO.

PDR
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 12:36
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Please forgive me Racedo, but you do seem to have a mate or family member to suit all senarios!
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 12:39
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If this Gatwick drone is still being seen by multiple people all through the day, why are there still no pictures of it?
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 12:44
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Originally Posted by yotty View Post
Please forgive me Racedo, but you do seem to have a mate or family member to suit all senarios!
I'm glad I'm not the only one to have noticed......
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 12:57
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What are these "chordless phones" PDR​​​?
​​​​​Are they ones with an annoying ring tone?

If you are referring to the standard DECT cordless phones, they do not operate at 2.4GHz. In Europe, they use a discrete frequency band allocated to them at 1.9GHz.
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