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Oxymorn : Smart and Motorways

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Oxymorn : Smart and Motorways

Old 16th Dec 2018, 12:26
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Oxymorn : Smart and Motorways

Nothing like the benefit of hindsight really ......albeit it's taken a few million quid first to construct them, for our elected representatives to come to this amazing conclusion.

Who would have thought the removal of the hard shoulder, dangerous enough as it is when in place, would have increased the risk to drivers safety when it was replaced with the occasional refuge.

Still it keeps the clinically brain dead employees of "Highways England " gainfully employed when things go horribly wrong, until the professionals arrive.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46553654
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 14:15
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I can't say I have noticed a hard shoulder driving in Europe, the USA, Australasia or the Far East. Maybe vehicles are more reliable than they were in the 1960s.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 16:03
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
I can't say I have noticed a hard shoulder driving in Europe, the USA, Australasia or the Far East. Maybe vehicles are more reliable than they were in the 1960s.
https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band...At_d%27urgence
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 17:02
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
I can't say I have noticed a hard shoulder driving in Europe, the USA, Australasia or the Far East. Maybe vehicles are more reliable than they were in the 1960s.
You may wish to consult an optician .....or, give up driving.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_(road)
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 17:16
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Smart motorways have enabled motorways to expand by 1/3 (on a 3 lane MWAY) without using huge amounts of additionally countryside or building another motorway.

I hate them but also accept they expand the amount available for cars to use.

Is there a danger if one breaks down on a lane on the motorway ? Yes but that danger is there whether it is a smart motorway or not as many accidents will testify to.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 17:21
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Yes but the point is -
On a 'Dumb' Motorway you have a reasonable chance of getting over to the Hard Shoulder and (relative) safety.
On a 'Smart' Motorway you have nowhere to go.

I know which type of road I would prefer to be on.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 18:06
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Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
Yes but the point is -
On a 'Dumb' Motorway you have a reasonable chance of getting over to the Hard Shoulder and (relative) safety.
On a 'Smart' Motorway you have nowhere to go.

I know which type of road I would prefer to be on.
Most dangerous place to be is on a Motorway hard shoulder.

People using the stats on deaths on a smart motorway to try and prove its unsafe. Bit of Fake news in this.

Areas that have had Smart motorways added like M42, M1. M25, M6 etc are the busiest areas in the UK. Hence the need for an additional lane. Claiming a rural motorway that will never be turned into a smart motorway is massively safer ignores the fact that traffic throughput on a smart motorway is 3-4 times heavier than lesser used one.

Option was do nothing and see increased gridlock or add an additinal lane to increase capacity.

In 2017 there were 99 deaths on UK motorways, 7,759 injured. In 2007 there were 183 fatalities. A single one is a tragedy but think people are grabbing at some dubious stats. Total road deaths were 1793 in 2017 v 2946 in 2007.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...eport-2017.pdf
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 18:13
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Rather than build smart motorways maybe spend a few bob on more policemen and get them out sorting out the idiots who coast along in the outside two lanes oblivious to everyone else. Maybe we won't need a smart lane then!
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 18:21
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Most dangerous place to be is on a Motorway hard shoulder.
That is why as soon as you have to stop, you should get out and over the safety barriers immediately. If you have "Gilets Jaune" put them on and move upstream from your vehicle. If it is rear ended by some idiot, there will be a lot of dangerous shrapnel flying around.
Common sense....but not so common!
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 18:39
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
I can't say I have noticed a hard shoulder driving in Europe, the USA, Australasia or the Far East. Maybe vehicles are more reliable than they were in the 1960s.
Never seen a hard shoulder in the USA?
I drive there on a very regular basis and just about every interstate I've been on has a hard shoulder.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 18:39
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 18:54
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That is why as soon as you have to stop, you should get out and over the safety barriers immediately.
And if you are disabled and unable to get over the barrier then what???
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 19:05
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There aught to be a phone number, or beeper that one can alert the Smart system to a blockage symbol.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 19:07
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Can't say I'd fancy breaking down at all on a motorway with no hard shoulder, or working as a recovery driver, but it would be terrifying late at night or in the early hours when the traffic is very light, travelling at high speed and visibility is restricted by darkness.
At least with a hard shoulder - for the most part -traffic won't be driving on it.
I've been stuck on the hard shoulder in the dark before and "safe" wasn't a word which immediately sprang to mind. A live lane would be asking for trouble.
I don't see the logic in the claim that a high speed road with a dedicated safety area is just as safe as one without.
(Safety being a relative term in this respect).
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 19:23
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Originally Posted by Loose rivets View Post
There aught to be a phone number, or beeper that one can alert the Smart system to a blockage symbol.
No need on the M62 smart section between Huddersfield and Leeds, there are cameras every mile or so in both directions which are pretty well manned during the rush hours.
The overhead gantries also house speed cameras, and they get plenty of use too... some folks have never seen a managed motorway before, like the coach driver from Exeter who was tailgating me and flashing me constantly for doing 40mph - he learnt the hard way.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 19:35
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LANE HOGGING?
I use the M27 east bound to go to work about 5:15 pm. (70 mph if traffic allows)
As I approach the A36 junction I move to lane 2 nice and early so that joining traffic has somewhere to go and then stay in this lane for the next junction where the M271 joins and it becomes 4 lanes.
I often get cars overtaking in lane 3 and cutting in front of me into lane 1 obviously annoyed with my pro-active driving.
I think I am doing the right thing in making space for joining traffic but others don't seem to think that way.
THOUGHTS?
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 20:05
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dixi, provided you don't move too early. Where I join a strategic motorway as I drive down the slip I see trucks and cars moving out. Occasionally one doesn't and I have to break rapidly before the end of the slip.

What is bad is I might be in lane 2 (ahead) with lane 1 pulling off when someone feels the need to overtake me and cut across to the exit at warp six.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 20:10
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Originally Posted by dixi188 View Post
LANE HOGGING?
I use the M27 east bound to go to work about 5:15 pm. (70 mph if traffic allows)
As I approach the A36 junction I move to lane 2 nice and early so that joining traffic has somewhere to go and then stay in this lane for the next junction where the M271 joins and it becomes 4 lanes.
I often get cars overtaking in lane 3 and cutting in front of me into lane 1 obviously annoyed with my pro-active driving.
I think I am doing the right thing in making space for joining traffic but others don't seem to think that way.
THOUGHTS?
I use that stretch daily: if you're moving across to provide space for existing vehicles to join, then that's up to you, they should speed match to join in a gap anyway, but it makes sense to make space if you can. If you're moving just in case there's vehicles wanting to join, then I get why they may be frustrated, you're "helping" no-one & compromising those behind you.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 20:31
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Most dangerous place to be is on a Motorway hard shoulder.

People using the stats on deaths on a smart motorway to try and prove its unsafe. Bit of Fake news in this.

but think people are grabbing at some dubious stats.
I am not looking at dubious stats LOL

On a busy 'Dumb' motorway - all the driving lanes will have heavy/fast traffic on them.

On a busy 'Smart' Motorway - all the Lanes will have heavy/fast traffic on them.

The Hard Shoulder on a 'Dumb' motorway will not have any traffic on it....

One does not have to be a Rocket Scientist to work out the safest place to park.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 20:52
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The Hard Shoulder on a 'Dumb' motorway will not usually have any traffic on it....

But frequently has vehicles deviating on to it. Not for nothing is the advice to exit the vehicle and take refuge over a crash barrier or well clear.

I would agree I would feel safer with a hard shoulder.

Just a thought, motorway users should always have a grab bag if they have a breakdown. They should also have warm clothing, food and drink, and a book should they be stuck in a breakdown.

Even on a short journey you can get stuck. We have been caught or just missed long hold up.
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