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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 22nd Dec 2018, 09:35
  #1801 (permalink)  
 
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That's Sallyann gone from the Cons and Effluent man gone from Labour. That evens it out then!!
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 09:42
  #1802 (permalink)  
 
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Sprogget
With your prescience what will the EU be like in a few years time ?
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 09:57
  #1803 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
I make no claims on behalf of the Conservative government of 2016 & the past is the past. A [email protected] like focus on the past is a characteristic of leave supporters & you're welcome to it. It's abundantly clear that we are embarked on a path that will prove hugely damaging to the UK & the only sane way to resolve it is to put it back to the people to see if they still want it.
Speaking of focusing on the past, if it’s not ok for the Conservatives of 2016 to be criticised then will your average labour supporter stop banging on about Maggie ‘shutting the mines’ 30 years ago. It’s funny how we can go back thirty years when it suits but going back a couple of years is a big no no.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 09:59
  #1804 (permalink)  
 
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I don't recall ever banging on about the miners in here, but then whataboutery is for scoundrels in my view. Maybe you've confused me with some old lefty.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 10:00
  #1805 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
  1. What parts of our economy have been "destroyed" by Brexit(eers)?
'Destroyed' like many words used here is emotive. In my original post I was referring to those companies that have moved head offices or production facilities etc. They will not, at least in the short term, move back. Changes to logistics chains will only revert if that is the least cost and efficient option.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 10:03
  #1806 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
I don't recall ever banging on about the miners in here, but then whataboutery is for scoundrels in my view. Maybe you've confused me with some old lefty.
Nah mate, just pointing out the hypocrisy of society in general. Given that brexit was the brainchild of the conservatives of 2016 and brexit is yet to be implemented then I think itís relevant and fair to include them in discussions given thatís itís the same conservatives in power and the same conservatives tasked with delivering brexit.

You bring up whataboutery yet claim leavers want to back to a previous time. Youíre forgetting many of us are of an age where the EU is all weíve ever known.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 10:06
  #1807 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by papajuliet View Post
Sprogget
With your prescience what will the EU be like in a few years time ?
Hard to say. Probably safe ground to predict the 27 won't be hoarding medicines, buying the world's stock of freezers, readying the (non existent) EU army & experiencing a sustained depression of the euro leading to higher prices for consumers.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 10:08
  #1808 (permalink)  

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"There have been reports that in fact this is not the case - people trying that who have been abroad for long enough get treated as health tourists and/or immigrants and denied NHS treatment until they've been back for a year (or whatever it is), much to their (ill-informed) surprise."

My brother (doctor, UK) tells me that this is true

"You will need a resident permit and that will require a police check."

Have you ever tried to get a Spanish residence permit or a French Permis de Sťjour as a foreigner?
Mountains of paperwork, several years and a demonstrated reason why ("Oh, I just felt like it", won't do)

You, Sir are dead wrong!

Mac
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 10:09
  #1809 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CroqueMonsieur View Post


Nah mate, just pointing out the hypocrisy of society in general. Given that brexit was the brainchild of the conservatives of 2016 and brexit is yet to be implemented then I think itís relevant and fair to include them in discussions given thatís itís the same conservatives in power and the same conservatives tasked with delivering brexit.

You bring up whataboutery yet claim leavers want to back to a previous time. Youíre forgetting many of us are of an age where the EU is all weíve ever known.
Not sure if it escaped your notice, but it's not the same government. There's been a new gun slinger in town for a coiple of years who as it turns out, despite adhering to the principle that a government can't bind it's successors, couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo. Nonetheless, who am I to criticise your attempt to tilt at windmills?
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 10:15
  #1810 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
Not sure if it escaped your notice, but it's not the same government. There's been a new gun slinger in town for a coiple of years who as it turns out, despite adhering to the principle that a government can't bind it's successors, couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo. Nonetheless, who am I to criticise your attempt to tilt at windmills?
Itís the same conservative and unionist party. The 2016 party is highly relevant to the debate on brexit today.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 10:26
  #1811 (permalink)  
 
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A quick correction. The EU Settlement Scheme referenced in an earlier post was "opened up" to health and care staff "to test the system prior to wider launch" initially UNTIL Friday 21 December.

This from a goverment letter published 07 December which mapped out preparations for a 'No Deal' scenario in March 2019. What are their priorities. Conceeding that there will be significant disruption at Folkestone and Dover for at least six months, make preparations to build a six week stockpile of medicine's, or single out EU nationals supporting the health service?

That is the wrong signal to send out but consistent with May's approach - "yes, we value your qualifications, skills, and contribution to our health service ... but if you could just make one final contribution in the approach to Christmas and pay to register your status ... that would be in OUR best interests".

Matt Hancock is the current Health Secretary who recently boasted that his department has become the world's biggest customer for refrigerators. What an utter bellend.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 11:20
  #1812 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
There have been reports that in fact this is not the case - people trying that who have been abroad for long enough get treated as health tourists and/or immigrants and denied NHS treatment until they've been back for a year (or whatever it is), much to their (ill-informed) surprise.
You mean that happens now, whilst we are still IN the EU? Or are you talking about people coming back from non-EU countries?

I do love these "he said, she said" scare stories, but I can understand how they proliferate as there is so little official guidance out there now.

I also see this specific case as a classic example of the divide between the have and have nots, i.e. wealthy remainers that have moved abroad to escape the general crappiness of an overcrowded, cold and wet UK but want to preserve their rights to come back should they so choose at a point in time that suits them, in order to access the NHS! And if that means the rest of us back in blighty have to just suck up the ECJ, FMOP & ECHR then so be it! Hurrah for the champagne soclalists!
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 11:28
  #1813 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
Hard to say. Probably safe ground to predict the 27 won't be hoarding medicines, buying the world's stock of freezers, readying the (non existent) EU army & experiencing a sustained depression of the euro leading to higher prices for consumers.
Jeez - you're a happy chappy Sprogget. Spoken to any citizens of Greece recently, or Italy, or Spain, or France, or Germany? Ask them what they perceive the benefits of EU membership to be - I think you may be surprised at some of the answers you get. The EU isn't the be all and end all of the universe - it's basically a cartel that aims to maintain the balance of power in the hands of the few, for the benefit of the few. It's the feckless masses that believe cheap air travel and cheap labour is the answer to the ills of the world, that keep the gravy train running. All good things come to an end my friend.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 11:48
  #1814 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
You mean that happens now, whilst we are still IN the EU? Or are you talking about people coming back from non-EU countries?
It happens now, whilst we are in the EU, for people coming "home" after living in the EU27. No doubt it applies to people coming from (at least some) non-EU countries too.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 12:08
  #1815 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
It happens now, whilst we are in the EU, for people coming "home" after living in the EU27. No doubt it applies to people coming from (at least some) non-EU countries too.
.

Gertrude is correct. This comes as a shock to some but even if you are a British National paying U.K. income Tax and U.K. NI (which is not that uncommon amongst expats) if you are not resident in the U.K. you will almost certainly have no entitlement to immediate and free NHS care, regardless of where on the planet you are actually resident, inside or outside the EU

As for the issue of Residency Permits and similar for the E27 countries, yet again there seems to be a body of opinion amongst some in the U.K. that as a Brit one can simply ďtakeĒ XXXX nationality or ďtakeĒ residency in XXXXX......guess what - as Mac has said it is not the simple and it is not an automatic right..


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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 12:15
  #1816 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CroqueMonsieur View Post


Itís the same conservative and unionist party. The 2016 party is highly relevant to the debate on brexit today.
Whatever. You banged on about left wingers bringing up the miners' strike to absolute scenes of indifference. Moving on -

Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Jeez - you're a happy chappy Sprogget. Spoken to any citizens of Greece recently, or Italy, or Spain, or France, or Germany? Ask them what they perceive the benefits of EU membership to be - I think you may be surprised at some of the answers you get. The EU isn't the be all and end all of the universe - it's basically a cartel that aims to maintain the balance of power in the hands of the few, for the benefit of the few. It's the feckless masses that believe cheap air travel and cheap labour is the answer to the ills of the world, that keep the gravy train running. All good things come to an end my friend.


What a load of rubbish. Every single last one of the Gammony UKIP check boxes, lined up one after the other. It's the gin fumes wafting over with the breezy dismissal of freedom of travel rights & the correlation is causation of Southern European states that have been basket cases for centuries that tickles in particular. Are you Gerard Batten moonlighting for kicks?!
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 12:32
  #1817 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
You mean that happens now, whilst we are still IN the EU? Or are you talking about people coming back from non-EU countries?
Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
I do love these "he said, she said" scare stories ...
These are not scare stories and he raises very interesting points about residential status both inside and out of the UK.

Taking a broader view. This is the shock that awaits both leave and remain campaigners if Britain isolates itself from the rest of Europe.

The cold hard reality of being labeled a 'foreigner'.

The first to experience that shock will be the millions of UK nationals settled throughout the EU.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 12:33
  #1818 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
Whatever. You banged on about left wingers bringing up the miners' strike to absolute scenes of indifference. Moving on -





What a load of rubbish. Every single last one of the Gammony UKIP check boxes, lined up one after the other. It's the gin fumes wafting over with the breezy dismissal of freedom of travel rights & the correlation is causation of Southern European states that have been basket cases for centuries that tickles in particular. Are you Gerard Batten moonlighting for kicks?!
Thanks Sprogget - I aim to please. More gammon, Sir?
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 12:33
  #1819 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rogerg View Post
That's Sallyann gone from the Cons and Effluent man gone from Labour. That evens it out then!!
True to an extent. But then where will our votes end up? If this is happening to any extent it could spell trouble for both parties.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 12:36
  #1820 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sfm818 View Post
[right]

These are not scare stories and he raises very interesting points about residential status both inside and out of the UK.

Taking a broader view. This is the shock that awaits both leave and remain campaigners if Britain isolates itself from the rest of Europe.

The cold hard reality of being labeled a 'foreigner'.

The first to experience that shock will be the millions of UK nationals settled throughout the EU.
Yes, but it happens NOW whilst we are IN the EU - so what's the point being made, re Brexit? Or am I being slow on the uptake (wouldn't be the first time)?
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