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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 16th Dec 2018, 10:33
  #1501 (permalink)  
 
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We wouldn't have to take the Euro.
No but by Jiminy you will.
Just repeating that untruth doesn’t make it true.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 10:44
  #1502 (permalink)  
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No but it matches the assertion that has gone before and is a possibility that seems to have been entirely ignored by those who lost the referendum in their haste to overturn the honest result of a parliamentary legislated public vote.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 11:19
  #1503 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MOSTAFA View Post
There isn’t going to be one - GET OVER IT.
WE'VE ALREADY HAD THE SECOND REFERENDUM.

In 2016.

The first one was in 1975, but the losers didn't like losing, and whined and whined and whined until they got a re-run. What's good for one side is good for the other, except that we won't be whining for 40 years, because we'll get the third referendum sooner than that. If you're really lucky we won't need the third referendum at all because parliament, having ruled out May's deal and having ruled out no deal, might have the sense to follow the only remaining (ha ha) option and, um, remain.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 11:46
  #1504 (permalink)  
 
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At last, some one who remembers history. Well said, GtW, this post earlier made I chuckle, so ironic. Best of three perhaps?

Originally Posted by MOSTAFA View Post
When parliament passed the EU Referendum Act in 2015 by 544 for and 53 votes against , none of those who voted for the referendum made their support conditional on the result being to remain . Any of the 544 who now even suggest a second referendum are clearly utterly dishonourable who have nothing but contempt for the law.

It would be utterly undemocratic if remain force a second referendum on us, just because they do not like the result of the first one. It is an appalling disregard for the wishes of the majority.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 12:29
  #1505 (permalink)  
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Well of course, time and circumstance move on. The literacy rate in the UK in 1975 was well below the level at which it stood in 2016.
It is surely only reasonable that with an increase in education and literacy people should be offered a choice as to from which seat of power they would like to be governed and of course, back then, the choice was between the romantic and dashing General de Gaulle and the Gannex wearing, pipe wielding Harold Wilson.
Barbara Castle, that more than delightful Labour politician said of the then EU: "They lured us into the market with the mirage of the market miracle"
Plus ça change.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 12:48
  #1506 (permalink)  
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Digging into it, and looking at the figures, for all the changes in types of school and methods of teaching, the rate is almost identical.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 12:53
  #1507 (permalink)  
 
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Don't go wrecking his arguments with facts. He's a brexiter and so has no use for facts - he prefers lies, and so any argument that isn't based on a foundation of lies is of no interest to him.

But if you write it on the side of a bus it may help...

PDR
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 13:08
  #1508 (permalink)  
 
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It's noticeable that in the last few weeks the language from remainers/rejoiners has been getting more abusive. That may be a substitute for shouting.

Shouting is a technique that is used when somebody feels that the argument is not going their way and then tries it to make the other side submit.

Maybe they are running out of time.

https://howmanydaystill.com/its/brexit-6
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 13:23
  #1509 (permalink)  
 
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Back in 1967, having once more said "Non!" to the UK joining the EEC, Charles de Gaulle said this:

At a news conference at the Elysee Palace in Paris, attended by more than 1,000 diplomats, civil servants and ministers as well as journalists, General de Gaulle accused Britain of a "deep-seated hostility" towards European construction. He said London showed a "lack of interest" in the Common Market and would require a "radical transformation" before joining the EEC. "The present Common Market is incompatible with the economy, as it now stands, of Britain," he said. He went on to list a number of aspects of Britain's economy, from working practices to agriculture, which he said made Britain incompatible with Europe.
Not sure much has changed in the intervening fifty one years...
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 13:39
  #1510 (permalink)  
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When faced with federalist abuse it behoves one to be explanatory, consoling and diplomatic.
One really shouldn't run around calling people liars just because they were educated overseas and their grasp of written English is rather above the relevant level of comprehension. It's probably libellous and I feel sure that the ECJ takes a very dim view of libel.That's probably why the people who run the European Empire don't have too many nasty, if true, stories printed about them in the Chained Duck and other such publications.


By the way, it's a great shame if educational literacy is the same now as it was 43 years ago. I expect drink could have something to do with that,
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 14:09
  #1511 (permalink)  
 
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It's a bit of a shame people laughed your join-the-Euro punt out of town, Then laughed again when you repeated it. Had they not, although, in fairness, you failed to provide a joy of justification for it, then we might have been able to progress onto mature debate. Instead, we get a slightly bitter narrative that is little more than a swing and a miss, taking in some nonsense about writing standards,libel, (LOL) the ECJ, a Euro dictatorship & a dig at Juncker on the way,

Brexiteers: 100% fact free since 2016.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 14:50
  #1512 (permalink)  
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Fact free is probably the best way to be in this whole sorry business because the facts are nebulous while moonshine on both sides is sublime. The remainers, just as much as the brexiteers have a long legacy of fact free history; project fear after all was nothing more than an exercise in mass hysteria. Even now it would seem as though both sides in this sorry war are walking into self delusive futures, neither side really has any factual street credibility.
The only people I know in Britain who support remaining are those who have holiday houses in Europe or whose children work for the EU government; people you might say who have a stake or vested interest in the European mainland.
The only people I know in Britain who want to leave Europe have no personal or financial self interest in Europe at all. They just don't like big government, or Europe or France or whatever.
If Britain stays or tries to stay in the EU then I think it reasonable to suppose that there will be pressure, however slight or draconian, at some point for the country to join the Euro. That's an obvious speculation because the cost of any future European economic failure would then fall in great proportion on the fifth (as the press so often say) largest economy in the world. That's too much goose too close to home for Berlaymont to ignore the opportunity.
Incidentally, there must be many who stay in the UK who are really neither brexiteer nor remainer, those who are interested bystanders or foreigners caught up in the marvellous arguments of an historical tragedy as it unfolds to the almost certainly eternal detriment of a nation.
What time does the last boat train leave for Calais?
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 15:04
  #1513 (permalink)  
 
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Keep repeating it if it makes you happy. Variations on I think, irrespective of the accompanying verbosity are neither here nor there.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 15:15
  #1514 (permalink)  
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You are absolutely right when you say that I think. I commend the thought. I fear that I do not have the temerity or conceit to do anything other than to speculate idly on what might happen at the end of this farrago. Please excuse the verbosity, eloquent or otherwise. It's nothing more than a distraction painted on the side of a bus.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 15:16
  #1515 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
But if you write it on the side of a bus it may help...
We're trying that with "Bollocks to Brexit" - seems to be going down quite well so far.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 15:46
  #1516 (permalink)  
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Please excuse the verbosity
Prolix. Verbose is verbal, the written equivalent is prolix.....
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 15:54
  #1517 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Back in 1967, having once more said "Non!" to the UK joining the EEC, Charles de Gaulle said this:

Not sure much has changed in the intervening fifty one years...
As you rightly recall, de Gaulle was very wary about Britain joining the EEC and gave many reasons why we should not do do. He was concerned that we would take a dominant role. So he kept us waiting until regulations like the farm subsidies had been determined in France's favour. Then he let us in.

As it happened, he need not have worried because we have never been fully engaged with the EU as Heath had wanted. Instead we have sat on the sidelines moaning while the rest of the EU got on with developing it to their own vision. Only Thatcher had any influence, and that was to gain a financial advantage which we have now chucked away.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 16:24
  #1518 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Prolix. Verbose is verbal, the written equivalent is prolix.....
Antiquated nonsense - and backwards to boot. The Elements of Style, the long-time (1918) authority for writers, warns against "verbosity," not "prolixity."

"Prolixity" - long-windedness ("wind" being a feature of speaking - forcing air through the vocal cords - not writing)
"Verbosity" - using more words than necessary, wordiness

But still an antiquated difference: speech and writing are both protected as free "speech." Espcially on the Web, where most speech is perforce written.

Verbosity is still best avoided in either. As Mark Twain started one of his letters, "I am sorry to send you such a long letter - I didn't have the time to write a short one." Thereby emphasizing the importance of revision, editing and tightening in producing an effective verbal communication (spoken or written).
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 16:38
  #1519 (permalink)  
 
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Project fear as it was called by such authorities as the Express and Mail is turning out not to be not far off the mark.

Immigration always was the fault of the UK Governments lack of vigilance and diligence and the problem immigrants in the UK are almost all from non EU countries.

And as for take back control well we have seen how well the UK Parliament does in a difficult situation -F--k the country party first or just plain idiocy. We are not in the Euro , or Shengen, we opted out of Eu employment legislation and if there was ever to be a European army we would be certain to be a leading if not the leading player in that. And whats wrong with a European army anyway-virtually all Eu countries are in NATO and no one in Europe alone has an army that could do little more than a token gesture against Russia China or the USA non of which have any motive or reason for attacking the EU with military force.

Second referendum please to see what the Will of the British people really is after what they have seen over the last two years and the exposue of Rees Mogg, Johnson and Farage for the wicked fantasists and traitors they really are
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 16:43
  #1520 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
And whats wrong with a European army anyway-virtually all Eu countries are in NATO........
So why the need for an EU army? Unless, of course, the federalists see it as just another part of their vision of a European nation state.
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