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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 16th Dec 2018, 06:59
  #1481 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Steepclimb View Post
There we have the classic hubris of the Brexiteer Englishman. The sense of superiority mixed with the newly discovered victimhood. Whether your little tale is true or not it points to a chaotic NHS. Not the EU's fault. In any case your broken leg story is implausible. Belgium is not a third world country.

As for your Irish comment. Well after centuries of exploitation by ruthless colonisers we are grateful you've recognised your failings. Thank you for the caravan parks. Remember you are the people who invaded and raped our country and even now cling onto part of it.
Isn't it so deliciously ironic that your precious independence from a union hangs on the fact you continue to occupy part of someone else's country only this time it's not so little, pathetic Ireland on it's own. It's 26 other countries on our side.
Reap what you sow.
A bit rich coming from a country that long ago surrendered to Rome and the Vatican with all the corruption, perversions and stagnation its culture engendered. It doesn't take a strong Westerly wind to hear the whining and moans of victimhood emanating from the island. Your problems, like many who claim victimisation, were of your own making.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 08:17
  #1482 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=Icare9;10336378]Amazing how many posters hogging this topic who say "I didn't vote in the Referendum" for whatever "reason" but who now think they have the right to air their "knowledge" when they didn't make the effort 2 years ago?

That is a pretty stupid remark. I didn't vote because, whilst I wasn't totally closed to the possibility of Leave I was aware of the very large body of misinformation being posted by both sides. It's rather like sitting on the runway in an aircraft that you are being told is airworthy by one party and that it isn't by another. In such a circumstance you might just wait for clarification.

Some aspects of Leave appealed. My particular worry was that Non European immigration might be easier were we in the EU and the authorities didn't contain it. I now think that issue will be addressed internally due to Italy's experience. I also doubted the claim that exit would be easy. These two things are largely why I have moved from neutral to Remain. So, rather than prevarication I would say that my stance was entirely sensible in the circumstances, and has in fact been proved right. I will be voting Remain in the second referendum, as will probably 90% of those who adopted a "Wait and see" stance.

I'm sorry if this upsets Leavers but it's their own faults for being sufficiently gullible to believe liars like Boris and the sloth lookalike Arron Banks.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 08:23
  #1483 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
If Britain were to have another referendum and voted to remain, part of the blood price for that would be to join the Euro currency.
When the next European recession rolls around in 2020, the ECB having given up on quantitive easing and having no anti recession weapons left, countries in the Eurozone will be amongst the worst affected in the world.
The USA will be in the middle of an election year and measures will be taken there to stave off recession by whatever means are possible. This will have a disastrously deleterious knock on effect on the European economies.
Britain's only chance of avoiding being dragged down in the maelstrom of he next world recession is to keep her own currency and to preserve her own economic policies and council. Further alliance with the EU, an acceptance of greater federalism or a commitment to increase financial contributions to the EU will lead to a hard recession in the UK by 2020. It will anyway be too late by then to have a third EU referendum although it should perhaps be remembered that, once the precedent of government by referendums has been set as it looks as though it is about to be, it's very difficult for a country to move on within itself without one.
Wrong, wrong and wrong again
We wouldn't have to take the Euro.
The next EU recession is just your wish.
A single UK with dependency on the US will be more vulnerable than the EU.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 08:23
  #1484 (permalink)  
 
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A measure of the sheer incompetence of Corbyn is demonstrated by five polls taken since the beginning of this month. The average is Tory 38.2% Labour 38%.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 08:44
  #1485 (permalink)  
 
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Javid quoted this morning to be setting the limits to EU migration at 15k/pa for 'middle skilled' whatever that means, by requiring minimum earnings at £30k. If that's the aspiration, it's a grotesque act of national self harm. We'll be excluding thousands who do the jobs that make society function, will make us poorer, meaner, more insular, more hostile to our nearest neighbours & all to satisfy the basest instincts of the coldest elements of scoiety.

Wed be wilfully excluding ourselves from future talent, Outside of a handful of occupations, practically no one in their twenties earns over 30k, the brightest minds have to put up with crappy salaries like everyone else. Why entertain coming here at all if it involves jumping through impossible financial hoops? The future looks grey & dull.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 08:48
  #1486 (permalink)  
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what would happen if the result was a close leave win.
For whom? Or have a 3rd?
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 08:50
  #1487 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
And a passing mention for the "R" word, not one that's being prominent thus far, but probably will be in the near future.

Not that this will overly concern those whose vision of the future is not dissimilar to the effects of looking at the sun for an extended period.... without sunglasses.
Obtuse as usual?

Day job creating click bait?
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 08:57
  #1488 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
If Britain were to have another referendum and voted to remain, part of the blood price for that would be to join the Euro currency.
Another #leaverlie. But I don't think you'll get away with this one this time - the CJEU A50 decision was actually publicised by the BBC, somewhat to my surprise.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 08:58
  #1489 (permalink)  
 
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When parliament passed the EU Referendum Act in 2015 by 544 for and 53 votes against , none of those who voted for the referendum made their support conditional on the result being to remain . Any of the 544 who now even suggest a second referendum are clearly utterly dishonourable who have nothing but contempt for the law.

It would be utterly undemocratic if remain force a second referendum on us, just because they do not like the result of the first one. It is an appalling disregard for the wishes of the majority.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 09:02
  #1490 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
A measure of the sheer incompetence of Corbyn is demonstrated by five polls taken since the beginning of this month. The average is Tory 38.2% Labour 38%.
It's not his incompetence, it's the fact that he is there at all that frightens many (like you I believe) from voting Labour.

Replace Corbyn with someone like Starmer, and there will be surge just like the one that brought Blair into power.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 09:05
  #1491 (permalink)  
 
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You are probably correct Remainer/Ref2 support would coalesce around a moderate leader of either party. I fail to see how it's undemocratic to follow the result of a new referendum.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 09:06
  #1492 (permalink)  
 
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and there will be surge just like the one that brought Blair into power.
Do we want another Blair?
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 09:12
  #1493 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Obtuse as usual?

Day job creating click bait?
Have you viewed the link by any remote chance ?

If so, how do you equate recession to being "obtuse " when, in all probability, given the fiscal projections, the resultant loss of jobs, the contingency planning now becoming even more extensive,, or rather the planning we know about in the public domain , this will duly follow the UK's exit ...assuming we do actually leave that is.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 09:13
  #1494 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MOSTAFA View Post
It would be utterly undemocratic if remain force a second referendum on us, just because they do not like the result of the first one. It is an appalling disregard for the wishes of the majority.
So if the second referendum was "an appalling disregard for the wishes of the majority" we should ignore its result and just #RevokeA50, as people voted overwhelmingly to remain in the first referendum.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 09:19
  #1495 (permalink)  
 
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There isn’t going to be one - GET OVER IT.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 09:27
  #1496 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rogerg View Post
Do we want another Blair?
Of course not.
But in his landslide election, people took him as an honest idealist and trusted him. They didn't know he was going to turn into a self-seeking war criminal.
​​​​​​
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 09:31
  #1497 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
It's not his incompetence, it's the fact that he is there at all that frightens many (like you I believe) from voting Labour.

Replace Corbyn with someone like Starmer, and there will be surge just like the one that brought Blair into power.
As a life long Labour voter I dislike Corbyn as much as the next but it is not going to happen.
I have always thought that H Benn talks a lot of sense.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 09:34
  #1498 (permalink)  
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Surely there is no one left in Britain who believes that the ECJ is anything more than a legal justification conduit for the Berlaymont brigade? Whatever the ECJ might have said and notwithstanding the fact that the well known parody of impartiality, the BBC, have said, it'll be changed, as required, the moment that the EU needs more money or men for its army or psychological prisoners in its federalist power games with any other country, race or people that show the slightest desire to express an independence of spirit.
But none of this matters really I suppose. In your system of government, the parliament voted to have a referendum and to abide by a majority. Each side, including the government, splashed money, exaggerations, scare stories and lies about. The underdog miraculously won the referendum. The winning side has effectively, by very foul means, far fouler than any previous lies that came before the referendum, almost been disqualified. The country's parliament, constitution and reputation have all been seriously prejudiced and for why? Because the side that lost the referendum played dirty after they'd agreed to play fair.
That I think sums it up for a lot of people who have neither roots nor traditions in the country. It isn't all at all about Brexit. The problem is the cankerous mess that is the European Union and of which Britain happens, at the moment, to be the most irritatingly interesting part. You only have to wonder why the European press has gone strangely quiet on El Trumpo or that fellow in North Korea. In terms of the leadership in Europe at the moment, those two are enlightened rulers. Either one of them, in any position of serious power, would have Brexit and EU reform sorted out by the end of Friday prayers.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 09:34
  #1499 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MOSTAFA View Post
There isnít going to be one - GET OVER IT.
The direction of travel suggests it's not remainers who will be having to get over it. Brexit is dead. It may happen but it's still dead. Brino, remain, delay or rejoin. Those are the options now.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 10:17
  #1500 (permalink)  
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Dear Sallyann,
I'm not a great follower of ping pong but anyway, here's a thought or two.

Wrong, wrong and wrong again
It's completely wrong to use wrong as an argument and leave it hanging all nebulous in the air.

We wouldn't have to take the Euro.
No but by Jiminy you will.

The next EU recession is just your wish.
Why should anyone with a shred of international investment nouse wish for a recession? That's a green eyed trait foreign to many nationalities.

A single UK with dependency on the US will be more vulnerable than the EU.
My point in the relevant post was that in his election year, El Trumpo will do anything to prevent the US entering a recession. The actions that he will have to take to achieve this goal are very likely to impact seriously on the EU economies. Britain will endure greater economic suffering in any projected 2020 recession is she is tied deeper into the EU.
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