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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 12th Dec 2018, 22:14
  #1301 (permalink)  
 
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I have to say I don't agree with her on many levels. But I admire her and I firmly believe she puts her country first. But she has an impossible task. But let's be clear this is not about the the best for Britain. This is about the Conservative party. All too often the Tories are all about themselves and their clique.
To hell with the rest.
But this vote is a distraction.
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Old 12th Dec 2018, 22:18
  #1302 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
Some activist on the Beeb (R5) claiming that there was a significant number of MPs that had rejected TM.
Most of the back benchers (if we assume that the payroll vote supported her, which might be a false assumption as it was a secret ballot).

So, is she better off or worse off than Corbyn in terms of back bench support from their own side?
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Old 12th Dec 2018, 22:20
  #1303 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Steepclimb View Post
I firmly believe she puts her country first.
Er no, you can tell she hasn't by the simple fact that she hasn't cancelled A50. Yet.
Originally Posted by Steepclimb View Post
But she has an impossible task.
One which she took on. When she didn't have to. She had one job, and she's failed. No sympathy.
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Old 12th Dec 2018, 22:35
  #1304 (permalink)  
 
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It's impossible because she made it so. Brexit is defined by the government. She chose to make it a circle that can't be squared then tried to cut parliament out of it at every juncture & lied & lied at every turn. Her only saving grace imo is she isn't Boris Johnson, so as things we get a cup of cold tea instead of cold sick. Neither are particularly appetising.
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Old 12th Dec 2018, 22:36
  #1305 (permalink)  
 
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The best that one can make of this is that we shouldn't be bothered by constant calls for a leadership challenge for another year.
Not that it will stop the loony right from constantly squeaking out, of course.
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Old 12th Dec 2018, 22:44
  #1306 (permalink)  
 
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I said before, surely now the obvious answer is cancel A50, but only pay a fraction of our contributions, as we see fit, dependent on the co-operative nature of the EU, or otherwise.... Also as I said before, how can the EU complain?? Many East European states and Mediterranean countries do exactly that.
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Old 12th Dec 2018, 23:05
  #1307 (permalink)  
 
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The other thing to bear in mind about the Vicar's daughter is to look back through her career. Married to someone that alledgedly helps people avoid tax. A basic administrator before entering politics, A good performer when it comes to obfuscation and rhetoric, but nothing else. Look at her career as Home Secretary, not one objective achieved. Most of those she set for herself.... A consumate political blagger, bullshi11er and quite frankly thick, stupid, unintelligent, but stubborn, oh so stubborn. However the real problem is what's a realistic alternative? The UK is finished, spent as a world force. There is an old expression "nobody wants to see the wizard behind the curtain" Well, the curtain has been drawn aside, & it's not a pretty sight...
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Old 12th Dec 2018, 23:17
  #1308 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
Look at her career as Home Secretary
"Impossible to work with" I've been told by people whose job it was to try.
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Old 12th Dec 2018, 23:38
  #1309 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
The UK is finished, spent as a world force. There is an old expression "nobody wants to see the wizard behind the curtain" Well, the curtain has been drawn aside, & it's not a pretty sight...
End of empire. To be fair Suez told that story a long time ago. The UK is finished. Scotland will be independent. Northern Ireland, in one of ironies considering how the backstop is such a central issue will look like the anachronism it is. The middle classes of neither religion will decide whether that being in Europe attached to a liberal democracy in Dublin is preferable to the DUP vision of a version of middle America backward world.
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 00:28
  #1310 (permalink)  
 
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Maciavelli must be spinning in his grave...

... unless Theresa May is his true reincarnation.
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 04:14
  #1311 (permalink)  
 
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Britain is rapidly spinning out of control now that Brexit paralysis has set in. It is debatable whether our government is more useless than our opposition or vice versa. Wherever this is heading now the only thing that we can have any confidence in is that it's not going to be a good place and that ultimately the hit is going to be taken disproportionately by the old, the poor and the low waged who are not in a position to ameliorate the dire effects resulting from this.

The only thing that you can say us that through their lack of education and general lassitude and disinterest in what is going on around them they are largely the authors of their own misfortune. That sounds harsh I know and it's not really meant to but that cohort have been played unmercifully by people who they strangely look up to as potential saviours, but who in reality are plotting further exploitation for their own curious ends.
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 08:30
  #1312 (permalink)  
 
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The parallel with the Roman empire continues to its inevitable end. So sad.
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 08:33
  #1313 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by occasional View Post
Perhaps you should remember that one of the reasons for the Brexit vote was that British civil servants appeared to be over-enthusiastic in applying EU legislation.
Jobsworths the lot.

As Douglas Hird said, we will fight tooth and nail against proposals that we disagree with and enforce regulations once in force. That is the only way.

OTOH the French et al say OK then a Gaulic shrug and get on with life, or the next riot.
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 09:51
  #1314 (permalink)  
 
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What are the chances that yesterday's vote was actually engineered by May's supporters?
Imagine the scenario within the Tory party:
"Prime Minister, things are getting more tricky by the day, with the Brexit loonies getting to be a real threat and a few, such as Boris, possibly lining themselves up for a putsch. So, here's a plan:
Let's force a leadership vote now, while you can still win. Once you have won, you are safe in office for another 12 months."
If the Tory loony right had kept their powder dry for another month or so, who knows? They could perhaps have won.
I agree with posters above who point out May's record. As far as I can make out, she never successfully piloted, enforced or oversaw a single useful piece of legislation. For a while, her crowning glory as Home Secretary was the immigration clamp down. And then along came Windrush.
As for her time as P.M., I am not aware of any obvious symptoms of good leadership or of good governance. Sadly, this is common throughout her party at the moment. (And the same goes for Corbyn)
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 10:22
  #1315 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by occasional View Post
Perhaps you should remember that one of the reasons for the Brexit vote was that British civil servants appeared to be over-enthusiastic in applying EU legislation.
I suspect once we have been set free of EU legislation our homegrown civil servants will create even more pointless legislation. Our UK bureaucrats just love creating this stuff and it will become like The Circumlocution Office, created in one of Charles Dicken's books. That's where the job creation will be after Brexit. The state legislature system will increase and the state welfare system will decrease.
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 10:31
  #1316 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by occasional View Post
Perhaps you should remember that one of the reasons for the Brexit vote was that British civil servants appeared to be over-enthusiastic in applying EU legislation.
If this is a sincerely held view, that revolves around your hoover not being all it was then unravelling forty years of economic, political & social cooperation patently isn't the answer. Is there any facet of our democracy Brexiteers won't disparage in pursuit of their pipe dream?
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 10:43
  #1317 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Grayfly View Post
I suspect once we have been set free of EU legislation our homegrown civil servants will create even more pointless legislation.
Sadly that is probably true.

While there are many things wrong with the EU there are many good features in Europe, some are national and others pan-European. A simple one is traffic light filter right (left for us). Another is changing traffic lights at night in quiet areas to flashing amber.

Many EU ideas fail on NIH. Those rules that are imported are often seen as an infringement rather than an improvement.
​​​​
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 10:59
  #1318 (permalink)  
 
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Fascinating to hear loony leavers ( I do not mean all leavers are looney) on TV and radio claiming that the no confidence vote was undemocratic. Funny that as the referendum was close to 50 :50 , in fact about 1.07 to 1 but Mrs Mays win which at about 1.80 to 1 gave her a massive majority over her opponents.

I suppose for people like that arithmetic is largely beyond them as they seem to have an almost rabid hatred of the Eu without having the faintest idea why other than we should 'stand firm' . Not always a good thing-had we stood firm just before Dunkirk we would have lost the war in the following two weeks . Or that the Eu want to 'govern us' without realising that a way from commercial and trade issues the Eu doesnt really have that much to do in running the day to day affairs of any member state even before our numerous 'opt out' rights . another favourite is that America will be our saviour- well they dont like us that much when push comes to shove and being business oriented nation are likely to value the EU much more than us. They also overlook that the USA is essentially the EU in its most federal guise and is currently run by people who are only shades of grey away from the USA of burning witches and lynching black people.

Anyway well done Mrs May , now all you have to do is to call friend Putin and ask what he would do with the Tory MPs who are traitors to their party as well as their country - they should escape 'punishment' if only for a quite wicked and self serving attempt to destabilise the country and no doubt cost us a few more million Dollars or Euros in currently losses no doubt shorted already by the likes of Rees-Mogg and Farage .
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 15:12
  #1319 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, I don't understand how 52% is the will of people while 67% means she still has to go.
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 15:27
  #1320 (permalink)  
 
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Remember this ?
"A strong and stable government"
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