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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 11th Dec 2018, 15:19
  #1221 (permalink)  
 
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I have the feeling that Mrs May could have perhaps got away with it. Junckers was quoted earlier today as saying there will be no re-negotiating but "clarifications may be possible". And that bit about the 'clarifications' may turn out to be the Backstop killer.
Whoever wins the current argy bargy, I just wish someone in government (and the opposition) would remember they have a mandate to govern, effectively and efficiently, this country. There are any number of issues that need sorting out without this intense focus on Brexit.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 15:23
  #1222 (permalink)  
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Sky News reporting two hot rumours from the HoC.

Firstly, the government whips have agreed with the Labour whips that the House should rise (adjoourn) on Fridaynrather than next Tuesday. It takes the pressure. It only off TM, but on Jeremy who is resisting strong pressure to call an immediate vote of no confidence, which at the moment they would lose.

Secondly, that the number of letters of no confidence in TM from her MPs has, finally, passed the required 48 and the leader of the 22 Committee is waiting for TM’s return to tell here and then hold a full ballot.

If the the ballot is held tomorrow and she should win, then nothing will happen till at least the 7th of January when the House sits again. If she loses then the MPs can hold ballots for a replacement over the rest of the week and the top two put to a ballot of the membership over the Xmas period - with a new PM in place for the new session.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 15:26
  #1223 (permalink)  
 
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There are any number of issues that need sorting out without this intense focus on Brexit.
Absolutely. Someone in government needs the guts to cancel HS2 before any more billions are wasted.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 15:29
  #1224 (permalink)  
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I have the feeling that Mrs May could have perhaps got away with it. Junckers was quoted earlier today as saying there will be no re-negotiating but "clarifications may be possible". And that bit about the 'clarifications' may turn out to be the Backstop killer.
Won’t happen. They have already said the Withdrawal Agreement is closed, at best it would be an added. It of clarification in the political declaration - which is non binding and has no legal force - and will mocked if she tries to claim it as any substantive change to the HoC.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 16:00
  #1225 (permalink)  
 
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All she has is to play for time. Try to kick it far enough down the road until it's her deal or no deal. She's an absolute shocker of a PM.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 16:19
  #1226 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Absolutely. Someone in government needs the guts to cancel HS2 before any more billions are wasted.
Hear Hear.

Batco
NB. SA1234 and me in agreement!
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 16:22
  #1227 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure why the other opposition parties are pushing Corbyn for a no confidence vote now, as it would likely fail if the DUP sides with the Tories. However if any tweaked deal that still had the backstop was approved by Parliament the DUP have said they would withdraw support- at that point a no confidence vote could well succeed.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 17:28
  #1228 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ThorMos View Post
One can equally well argue that the UK's desired WTO status requires a hard border...
As far as I am aware the WTO rules are about what the rules should be - not about how they should be enforced.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 17:29
  #1229 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
All she has is to play for time. Try to kick it far enough down the road until it's her deal or no deal. She's an absolute shocker of a PM.
I was interested in Ian Duncan Smith interview this pm.

His view was to start with the 39 billion divorce settlement and negotiate from there.
Sounds good but alas it is far too late for that. We should have played a much harder negotiation using that money as a lever.

Were I in her position, I would look the leaders of the various countries and ask them whether they would be happy with what we are expected to accept.
Can you imagine what the French would have done.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 17:38
  #1230 (permalink)  
 
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Hmm. All very nice but we live in the real world. The 39bn is a settling of obligations. If you want to trade with trust & confidence for decades to come, then a piss poor start to that is withhold monies owed. Just like Batco & co insisting the border in NI is the EU's problem when the reality would be our friend the chicken supplier wondering when his 26 pallets of slowly decaying poultry might cross the A1 at Killeen, it would be entirely refreshing if we applied some critical thought as opposed to giving valuable time to hopeless sophomaniacs like Ian Duncan Smith.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 17:53
  #1231 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
Hmm. All very nice but we live in the real world. The 39bn is a settling of obligations. If you want to trade with trust & confidence for decades to come, then a piss poor start to that is withhold monies owed. Just like Batco & co insisting the border in NI is the EU's problem when the reality would be our friend the chicken supplier wondering when his 26 pallets of slowly decaying poultry might cross the A1 at Killeen, it would be entirely refreshing if we applied some critical thought as opposed to giving valuable time to hopeless sophomaniacs like Ian Duncan Smith.
Have to agree about the 39bn. That should be entirely separate from the fundamental negotiation.
However it might be appropriate for your chicken supplier to reflect that finding his chicken detained in Ireland could prove much more expensive than having it turned back at the border.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 18:44
  #1232 (permalink)  
 
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We're going in the opposite direction but I take the point ;-)
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 18:47
  #1233 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by occasional View Post
Have to agree about the 39bn. That should be entirely separate from the fundamental negotiation.
However it might be appropriate for your chicken supplier to reflect that finding his chicken detained in Ireland could prove much more expensive than having it turned back at the border.
Not just the chicken, but the pork stuffed with banned chemicals and the beef full of growth hormones.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 19:01
  #1234 (permalink)  
 
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Sallyanne, have you ever eaten in the USA? or is just what you have read in the guardian?
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 19:08
  #1235 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Secondly, that the number of letters of no confidence in TM from her MPs has, finally, passed the required 48 and the leader of the 22 Committee is waiting for TMís return to tell here and then hold a full ballot.
You left out the second part of that rumour, which is that May is busy extending her tour to cover the entire world, so that she doesn't get back until 30th March.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 19:44
  #1236 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rogerg View Post
Sallyanne, have you ever eaten in the USA? or is just what you have read in the guardian?
When I visit a country I have to accept the conditions there, or I don't go.

Therefore I have eaten in the USA. I have also travelled in taxis in Mumbai, but I don't expect to find them driving in London.

Do you deny that Ractopamine is fed to most pigs in the USA, although it is banned in the rest of the world?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ractopamine
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 21:18
  #1237 (permalink)  
 
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Gertrude: She just got back to and entered No 10 a few minutes ago.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 22:01
  #1238 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Gertrude: She just got back to and entered No 10 a few minutes ago.
Preceded into no. 10 by the chief whip who got there five minutes before her ... I wonder what odds the bookies will give on Caroline Lucas being PM by Christmas? - should be long enough to be worth a tenner.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 22:47
  #1239 (permalink)  
 
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At today's prices, a tenner on Lucas will lose you exactly ten pounds.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 23:44
  #1240 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Steepclimb:
What tosh! I do not believe I am better than anybody. Unless you know me better than I?
I am sure that there were racists & bigots voting in the Remain camp too but then, I bet there are racists and bigots on all sides in all elections so should I refrain from voting in general elections on the grounds there may be racists voting too?
A stupid remark really, wasn't it?
You may not, in fact indeed you do not believe you're better than anyone else but it is a trait of English people I know. I did state it's not necessarily a bad thing. But I haven't met an Englishman yet who felt constrained to hold back on his views of the oddities he experiences here or in any country he occupies. The Englishman abroad cliche. I find it illuminating. The French and Americans share the trait. It's not tosh.
One of the problems is that Brexiteers and indeed Trump in another context has facilitated the bigots, giving them oxygen. That's a problem.
The chaos we see is a result of that.

It's a mistake, Britain needs to be at heart of Europe and the EU. It's a moderating influence as any student of history will tell you. The problem is that Brexiteers have a very narrow and short term view. All those Romanians.......

I find it astonishing that you think exiting Europe will improve Britain's place in the world. Britain, France and Germany are the keystones of Europe. There's talk of joining the EFTA, really Norway,. Iceland, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, cue coarse laughter. The UK on a par with Liechtenstein. What a joke.

Really what's stupid? The UK a peripheral country in Northern Europe hoping the former colonies they formerly exploited will play cricket? Or Britain maintaining it's place in Europe as a country who everyone sees as a model of business and freedom where hard work pays.

Brexit is built on a fantasy. Yes the EU is flawed but outside Britain can no longer can influence that in any positive way outside the union.

The empire is gone, except for Northern Ireland that 36 billion black hole for the taxpayer. Yet it's wholly ironic it's the roadblock for the fantasy journey to the sunlit uplands of freedom from the oppressive EU. Northern Ireland a place most Brits could care less about. But the Tories having recently discovered the place feel the need to protect it to death even though the so called backstop is unlikely to be invoked ever.





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