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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 9th Dec 2019, 17:50
  #12081 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
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I only rarely use ORAC's cut-and-paste input as a comment method but it might be that our favourite non-thinker missed this fine example of the buffoon's 'caring side'. Should he ever 'man up' enough to subject himself to unorchestrated interview his explanation of his behaviour would be of interest. No doubt his adoring fans will find some drivelling excuse for his continuing to be accepted in a caring society?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50717606

PS - Sorry KD I missed your previous reference.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 18:00
  #12082 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
So resent away and bugger off abroad if it suits.
Does this apply to people like yourself who has refused to believe that ordinary people voted to leave the EU?
You have spent the last 3 years wishing that all those 17.4m people had just kept quiet and not voted.


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Old 9th Dec 2019, 18:08
  #12083 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
This bit



Living off benefits is not a comfortable lifestyle. There are many unfortunate people who for no reason of their own are unable to get a real, full-time job. Many of those on zero-hours cannot survive without benefits.

I pay 40% too. It comes with having the skills to find or create a good income. Lots of people just do not have that ability. So resent away and bugger off abroad if it suits.
So you think that every single person on benefits is avidly looking for a job??! You need to wander the streets of the West Midlands and open your eyes... There are entire towns where itís a lifestyle choice...
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 18:22
  #12084 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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Guardian: Steven Morris

The Conservatives are on course to make significant gains in Wales, according to a YouGov poll. Labour is on 40%, only just ahead of the Tories (37%) and Plaid Cymru is in third place on 10%.

Roger Awan-Scully, head of politics at Cardiff University, projected that if the figures are accurate this could leave Labour with 20 seats in Wales (down from 28 in 2017). The Conservatives could win 16 (10 more than in 2017) Awan-Scully said this would be the lowest Labour seat number in Wales since 1983 (when there were 38 rather than 40).

Forty per cent of people said they believed Boris Johnson would be a good prime minister, while 33% said Jeremy Corbyn would do a good job in No 10.

The poll was carried out for ITV Wales and Cardiff University.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 19:23
  #12085 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
If I supported Boris I wouldn't be mentioning Putin. Word is that the withheld report on electoral interference pretty much concludes that Russian money bought the referendum. In my mind that will invalidate the result of this election. A better guide to Brexit will be the aggregate votes in 96 hours time of Labour,LD,Green, PC ,SNP and SF on one side, Tory, Brexit and DUP on the other
Your error is assuming all Labour leavers will vote Tory and an all Tory remainers . . .
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 20:05
  #12086 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
This bit



Living off benefits is not a comfortable lifestyle. There are many unfortunate people who for no reason of their own are unable to get a real, full-time job. Many of those on zero-hours cannot survive without benefits.

I pay 40% too. It comes with having the skills to find or create a good income. Lots of people just do not have that ability. So resent away and bugger off abroad if it suits.
Some people clearly spend too much time with their head buried in the Daily Express and Daily Mail lapping up all the poison that those two disgusting rags print as fact.

Of course there are people who play the system, pretending, for example that there is only one person living in a rented property, when there are two, and as such getting away with additional benefits and council tax reductions. But even then the one legitimate resident, over claiming on said benefits is often working on a low paid job where their income doesn't come close to matching their outgoings without resorting to benefits. And then there are a few totally idle toerags who sponge off the system claiming long term disability, mental problems and whatever else so they can while the days away in front of Netflix or indulge in the Sky subs. I will never defend this group, they are very much the minority.

As for 43% of people not paying taxes, I guess the poster has decided, rather perversely that National Insurance isn't a tax, and that only income tax counts. Fact is that you have to be earning very little to avoid paying NHI, and the reasons that so many people fall outside income tax are that, firstly, the UK is now, outside on London and the Southeast, very much a low wage economy, and second, because governments since 2010, thanks largely to the LibDems, have increased the thresholds for paying income tax very much faster than the minimum wage has risen.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 20:47
  #12087 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
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Originally Posted by flocci_non_faccio View Post
Being unemployed and on benefits in the UK in 2019 is a lifestyle choice that I resent paying for.
Back to keyboard, and what do we have here ?
Selfishness rearing its ugly self-serving head...
So sorry for the sensible and generous people in the UK ;-(
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 21:21
  #12088 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
Does this apply to people like yourself who has refused to believe that ordinary people voted to leave the EU?
You have spent the last 3 years wishing that all those 17.4m people had just kept quiet and not voted.
If you had bothered to read my posts instead of making assumptions, you would find that I accepted the result of the referendum immediately and have never supported a second referendum. That doesn't mean I don't think it was a mistake, which I am still convinced will become all too plain when this reelected excuse for a government tries to sort out the mess of trade negotiations.
Yes the majority voters made a mistake, which they will learn to regret.

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Old 9th Dec 2019, 21:26
  #12089 (permalink)  
 
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Yes the majority voters made a mistake, which they will learn to regret.
Many of them will not learn to regret their mistake, since they will be six feet under, or dust. Those they left behind may not be so fortunate.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 21:32
  #12090 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nige321 View Post


So you think that every single person on benefits is avidly looking for a job??! You need to wander the streets of the West Midlands and open your eyes... There are entire towns where it’s a lifestyle choice...

Why don't you read what someone says, instead of what you wished they should have said to give you an easy reply?

Poverty and lack of opportunity are not equally distributed. They are greatest in areas where traditional industries have died. Do you think that Boris and company are bothered about poverty when they themselves are supported by the companies that live off minimum waged/zero hours staff, and Russian friends?

No wonder people turn to extreme hard line socialists - what other choice do they have?
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 21:44
  #12091 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nige321 View Post

(PS - Up until last year, I paid 40% tax. And no, I'm not 'rich'....)
If you are in the 40% tax bracket you are richer than most.

The average pay in the UK is about £25000/year
According to ONS

That's half the 40% tax threshold.

By the way, I don't begrudge you a penny of it. I despise those who refuse to work and scam the system for all its worth.
However, what is depressing is the realisation that the vast majority of working people in the UK are struggling to make ends meet. There are good, hard working people living in dreadful conditions. The system has to change. I'm in the top 10% of earners and I don't pay tax at 40% . How did that happen?
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 21:49
  #12092 (permalink)  
 
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oh no! We're getting back to the fundamentals of why people voted Leave (or didnt) back in 2016. This has all been done before, but hey that's why its called a hamsterwheel!
  • The assumption that GDP growth is everything and that as long as that number keeps trending upwards then we're all OK is flawed
  • Quality of life is becoming more important to more of us. That requires a decent(ish) lifestlye, but it's not just about money (or GDP growth)
  • For many (about 48%) the status quo was just fine. Who cares if you cant get a GPs appt, or travel from A to B without gridlock, or if the very fabric of the town you grew up in has been ripped apart and turned into something you dont recognise?
  • For the 48% then it's just fine, keep building unaffordable houses on countryside and greenbelt, keep those logistics parks coming, keep those greedy developer profits flowing, keep exploiting migrant labour and (at the same time) rendering the unskilled local jobless
  • As long as GDP keeps growing who cares??
Well thankfully, 52% had enough, so its time fior a change. Will it be better or worse? I've honestly no clue, and the current crop of politicians doesnt bode well, but let's at least give it a shot before we give up on it!
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 22:19
  #12093 (permalink)  
 
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oh no! We're getting back to the fundamentals of why people voted Leave (or didnt) back in 2016
Are we? It's a fact, beyond any doubt that many of the people that voted in the referendum are now dead, which ever way they voted! They did not live to reap the consequences of where they placed their mark. Their descendants however will.

The grim reaper does not discriminate between leavers and remainers.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 22:31
  #12094 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Personally when the Conservatives get in power and if they have a credible majority, I can see the current deal that they were forced into by Parliament getting thrown out of the window and a new one negotiated, totally different from the current one.
This is interesting.
Conservative minority: Extension
Conservative majority: Brexit withdrawal agreement rejected, => Extension in order to negotiate a "totally different WA".

Does that mean we are 100% sure "Brexit won't get done" on the 1st of February 2020 ?
One wonders what a "totally different withdrawal deal" would look like ?

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Old 9th Dec 2019, 22:40
  #12095 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Are we? It's a fact, beyond any doubt that many of the people that voted in the referendum are now dead, which ever way they voted! They did not live to reap the consequences of where they placed their mark. Their descendants however will.

The grim reaper does not discriminate between leavers and remainers.
So, assuming you're slightly bizarre logic, then all those liberal under 40's that voted Remain in 2016 are now grumpy 40 somethings that would vote Leave next time around.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 22:53
  #12096 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
oh no! We're getting back to the fundamentals of why people voted Leave (or didnt) back in 2016. This has all been done before, but hey that's why its called a hamsterwheel!
  • The assumption that GDP growth is everything and that as long as that number keeps trending upwards then we're all OK is flawed
  • Quality of life is becoming more important to more of us. That requires a decent(ish) lifestlye, but it's not just about money (or GDP growth)
  • For many (about 48%) the status quo was just fine. Who cares if you cant get a GPs appt, or travel from A to B without gridlock, or if the very fabric of the town you grew up in has been ripped apart and turned into something you dont recognise?
  • For the 48% then it's just fine, keep building unaffordable houses on countryside and greenbelt, keep those logistics parks coming, keep those greedy developer profits flowing, keep exploiting migrant labour and (at the same time) rendering the unskilled local jobless
  • As long as GDP keeps growing who cares??
Well thankfully, 52% had enough, so its time fior a change. Will it be better or worse? I've honestly no clue, and the current crop of politicians doesnt bode well, but let's at least give it a shot before we give up on it!

andrewn

how you arrive at the idea that it is the EU that is the principle cause of the things you list (migration/identity theme conditionally excepted), is genuinely utterly unfathomable. The things you list are driven by national politics and policies, If any entity has the power to shape and drive the British interest in Britain, it is the British government. If successive British governments have failed to create a believable Britain, how do you reach the conclusion that excepting the UK from the EU will have purchase in making good ground on your concerns? Surely it would re-realise the same British politicians, ideas, ideologies and party structures.

The only interest I have to declare is that I think the main proponents of Brexit are mendacious creeps, and I do not see for the life of me how more libertarian economic philosophy (an inevitable consequence of any form of hard Brexit) serves the idea of Britain which is in any sense shared.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 22:56
  #12097 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
So, assuming you're slightly bizarre logic, then all those liberal under 40's that voted Remain in 2016 are now grumpy 40 somethings that would vote Leave next time around.
There is a lot more bizarre logic than stating the blindingly obvious that over 3 years a fair number of people who voted in the referendum are now dead!!!

Whether people were liberal under pensioners, or reactionary under 40s is with respect totally irrelevant. Dead people can't experience the fruits of their decisions, whether they supported remain, as did my late father, or leave.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 23:02
  #12098 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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........

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Old 9th Dec 2019, 23:08
  #12099 (permalink)  
 
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aaaahhhhh ORAC,

did you you feel Blowjo rubbing you up the right way?
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 23:21
  #12100 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Why don't you read what someone says, instead of what you wished they should have said to give you an easy reply?

Poverty and lack of opportunity are not equally distributed. They are greatest in areas where traditional industries have died. Do you think that Boris and company are bothered about poverty when they themselves are supported by the companies that live off minimum waged/zero hours staff, and Russian friends?

No wonder people turn to extreme hard line socialists - what other choice do they have?
It's that kind of daft comment which shows you believe everything the Daily Mirror tells you...


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