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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 10th Dec 2018, 23:31
  #1181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bedford, UK
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First class honours degree from Imperial. Masters degree from CalTech, and I need to wash more often. Who would have guessed.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 23:53
  #1182 (permalink)  
 
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The wicked witch of the North is now trying to co join Labour in toppling the government

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexi...2Tp?li=BBoPRmx

More of the... it's all about me and sod the Country.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 01:34
  #1183 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Dutystude:
Posting remarks such as this puts you squarely in that category, with the exception of the voting leave portion.
Personally, I do wash, I am educated, I am not racist, nor a 'little englander' (Doesn't the 'englander' merit a capital letter?) and I am not, to the best of my knowledge a bigot. Yet I voted leave.
Now, how about you?
May I suggest a spot of neck winding in may be in order? Unless, of course, you post stuff like that with the express intention of insulting anyone and everyone.
You know,. I'm Irish, my best friend is English, my brother in law is English and a Brexiteer. A good friend is English and a Brexiteer. The chap who does my garden is English and not a Brexiteer. I live in Ireland btw. I like them all. But the one thing in common they have is a sense that all of them feel they are better than us. A commendable trait on one level. Something that has allowed the English to conquer half the world in the past and have an influence way beyond their small country. Who wouldn't be proud of that?
No you are not a racist, but you do believe you are better than the rest of us. Also I'm afraid you voted alongside the racists and the bigots.
Worse you voted to remove the often positive influence you British have on Continental Europe, going back a long time. The British are vital to stability and democracy in Europe but you can't see that because of your small minded obsession with Romanians or whoever and the myth they're invading. Ignoring the reality that English people don't want the jobs they do. Just like in Ireland.

Ireland, here we go. The British desire to cling on to their last piece of empire. The trope that the Northern part of Ireland is theirs and must be defended at all costs. Actually that isn't a problem that issue was solved long ago or so we thought.

No the mythical back stop is the issue apparently.

In a funny way I hope Britain leaves with a no deal with all the consequences that entails. I'm sorry for all the moderates and remainers but maybe it has to be. The whole ,' Fog in English channel, Continent cut off' mentality needs to be excised.

The English have over the years, conquered, invaded and exploited so many countries that perhaps they need a bit of humiliation.
I speak as someone who generally admires the English and Britain.
Maybe it will do you good eventually.

But right now Britain is a laughing stock. Sad really.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 03:11
  #1184 (permalink)  
 
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Yup. Humiliating.

Parallels with Chamberlain & Munich; plenty of Halifax's out there too ... no Churchill.

Guess I'm a dinasour, but there you go.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 06:40
  #1185 (permalink)  
 
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Sturgeon wasn't supporting Corbyn she was trying to smoke him out. He is currently vying with JRM as No1 Brexiteer. Sooner or later he has to break cover. Then maybe those Labour members will realise what he is, a superannuated 1968 revolutionary.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 07:20
  #1186 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Dutystude:

May I suggest a spot of neck winding in may be in order? Unless, of course, you post stuff like that with the express intention of insulting anyone and everyone.
Kelvin...

Don’t take it personally, for whatever reason DS has been dishing it out similar to people on both sides of the argument since the time of the referendum....

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Old 11th Dec 2018, 07:23
  #1187 (permalink)  
 
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Steepclimb

The English have over the years, conquered, invaded and exploited so many countries that perhaps they need a bit of humiliation.
I speak as someone who generally admires the English and Britain.
Maybe it will do you good eventually.

But right now Britain is a laughing stock. Sad really.
I've been saying for a couple of years now that if one good thing comes out of Brexit it will be that the UK finally understands it's position in the world. We (the British) still appear to have the imperial mindset of "we're British so you'll do as your told" which is clearly not true. Yes, we spend the most of any nation in western Europe on defence, largely again because we can't shake off our imperial past. Yes, we have a permanent seat at the UN Security council, because of an accident of history insofar as we won the war. if the UN were to be set up today the permanent members of the security council may look very different. But when all is said and done, Brexit is another step along the road of diminishing the UK's place in the real world.

Brexit isn't the outbreak of WW3, the USA isn't going to come running to our aid, they will undoubtedly sense our weakness and offer a bad trade deal, which we may feel bound to accept in desperation. I wish I could find distant relatives with Irish heritage that could get me a green passport before the brown messy stuff hit the fan, which it looks increasingly like doin, all in the name of saving the Tory party, and following the "will of the people".
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 07:29
  #1188 (permalink)  
 
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Steepclimb:
No you are not a racist, but you do believe you are better than the rest of us. Also I'm afraid you voted alongside the racists and the bigots.
What tosh! I do not believe I am better than anybody. Unless you know me better than I?
I am sure that there were racists & bigots voting in the Remain camp too but then, I bet there are racists and bigots on all sides in all elections so should I refrain from voting in general elections on the grounds there may be racists voting too?
A stupid remark really, wasn't it?
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 07:52
  #1189 (permalink)  
 
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Massive cul-de-sac to suggest all Brexit voters are racists & bigots, but I'd lay money all racists & bigots voted for Brexit.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 07:56
  #1190 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
Massive cul-de-sac to suggest all Brexit voters are racists & bigots, but I'd lay money all racists & bigots voted for Brexit.
That would appear to be a reasonable assumption, there's not much to attract those groups in the remain manifesto. You only have to watch and listen to the interminable voxpops on BBC News at present to work out that the older demographic of the Brexit argument have stopping immigration at the top of their list of priorities.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 08:29
  #1191 (permalink)  
 
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I have friends and family, young and old, who voted remain and there were some good debates initially, however they have now learnt more than they knew before and having read and digested some of the remain diatribe, seen the complete disaster that the parliament has become, plus the rhetoric from the EU they will now vote for exit if asked in another referendum.

I suppose that now moves them from the intelligent, knowing all group, that by default they must have been part of having voted remain, to the ignorant, racist bigot group by virtue of that change of mind that obviously demonstrates they were not suited, intelligence wise, to have been in the remain cabal in the first place.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 08:30
  #1192 (permalink)  
 
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It was always an impossibly short schedule to expect this business to pass through the House. Why the rush? Theresa May has not served anyone's best interests by writing the departure date into law. However, that wreckless act can, and should, be reversed.

This is now a state of emergency. Markets will not react kindly if Britain coninues along these lines. Postponing a possible withdrawal from the EU would allow goverment departments and the business community to prepare on a more realistic, workable timeframe. Ten years hence, once there is agreement on the best way forward, publish the details in advance of a second referendum.

Those extra ten years would allow the country to get back on it's feet. It would also give Britain a voice at the table to put in place sensible rules on the movement of EU and non-EU nationals across Europe's borders
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 08:49
  #1193 (permalink)  
 
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The point about racists & bigots voting leave is valid. One only has to look as far as the UKIP Brexit betrayal march on Sunday & more to the point who was involved in it BNP, Generation identity etc) to understand that. I would have hoped that in a group of presumably, grown ups, it would be possible to make the distinction between a large group of people concerned about the direction of travel, our sovereignty, immigration levels etc. however misguided one side thinks the other may be and a smaller but no less relevant group of people who quite frankly, would be delighted to see a fair fewer darkies & furriners about the place AND who were pandered to by appallingly shameless politicians & a willing cohort of toxic right wing newspapers.


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Old 11th Dec 2018, 09:08
  #1194 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prawn2king4 View Post
Yup. Humiliating.

Parallels with Chamberlain & Munich; plenty of Halifax's out there too ... no Churchill.

Guess I'm a dinasour, but there you go.
I've just finished a business call with a German work colleague. At the end he asked me what was going on over here as he couldn't understand what he was reading in the German press. He said their coverage of Brexit is brief but lacking in explanation. I just had to tell him I had no answers either. He's a great admirer of Britain and is as sad as I am.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 09:09
  #1195 (permalink)  
 
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This is now a state of emergency.
That's the way I see it, and from whichever side of the divide one comes it's not a good situation. I am not qualified on the ins and outs of the UK constitution, and since it's not written down it must be hard for anyone to have a definitive answer, but anyway here goes.

Were the government to put in place a State of Emergency could they, under any circumstances push the UK / EU deal through without a vote? If so, it may be the only way to solve the impasse in a way that protects the public from the potential consequences of a no deal exit. But could it, under any circumstances be done.

I'll make it clear, I'm not promoting the idea, but just interested in whether it would be a runner.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 09:12
  #1196 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I've just finished a business call with a German work colleague. At the end he asked me what was going on over here as he couldn't understand what he was reading in the German press. He said their coverage of Brexit is brief but lacking in explanation. I just had to tell him I had no answers either. He's a great admirer of Britain and is as sad as I am.
When you speak to Germans that tends to be the response with regard to Brexit, they simply don't understand why we voted to leave, but mostly they also take the view that we've made our bed, and we're going to have to sleep in it.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 09:22
  #1197 (permalink)  
 
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I think there will be less sleep in many beds if we just crash out.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 09:27
  #1198 (permalink)  
 
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It is not a state of emergency, pure hyperbole. A state of emergency would be a declaration of war, imminent invasion, catastrophic incident threatening life and the such like. This is a political impasse.

The impasse has been reached by MPs that instead of focusing on the issue before them continue to prioritise party and individual ambitions.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 09:39
  #1199 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WilliumMate View Post
It is not a state of emergency, pure hyperbole. A state of emergency would be a declaration of war, imminent invasion, catastrophic incident threatening life and the such like. This is a political impasse.

The impasse has been reached by MPs that instead of focusing on the issue before them continue to prioritise party and individual ambitions.
It may well turn out to be a "catastrophic incident threatening life and the such like", or could be construed as such. It is absolutely an impasse created by MPs from all sides of the Brexit divide and they really should grow up and start working in the national interest. Such is the nature of our adversarial rather than consensual political system I don't expect that to change anytime soon. Were we to have an electoral system that made coalitions more likely we might have more consensus in parliament, and might not be in the God awful mess.

Doesn't answer the question, could a State of Emergency be invoked, and could the cabinet push through their agreement in such a situation. Hopefully VP959 may have the answer, he / she appears to be well versed in matters of government.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 10:23
  #1200 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
It was Theresa May - but you know that.
I did know that as I am sure millions do.

Yet another case of proposing some sort of palliative without thinking it through.
And that illustrates precisely why we are in the mess that we are.
No cool heads and no clear thinking right from the very beginning.

There is a very good saying. Don't ask a question if you don't know what to do with the answer.
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