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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 24th Nov 2019, 22:11
  #11681 (permalink)  
 
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Orac: re Conservative Manifesto Costings Document.....
I have just had a quick scan through that and it is a massive 3 card trick or Javid has given us a pack of lies in his statement this morning. He sought to make us believe we would be shown the costs of all the oven ready promises and how they would be funded. That, after all, is how the Tories have been challenging Labour on their promises, demanding we be shown the fag packets be produced to account for the source of all the funds needed to pay for promised programmes. That joke document I have just read does none of that. Worse; it says the Tories will do this, that or the other and the cost will be £xxx. Instead of backing these promises up with a "where will we get the money from", there is a section listing how the available funds will be diminished via tax cuts.
I will repeat a part of what he said on TV this morning:
the "manifesto would come with the “most transparent” explanation of how the policies would be paid for ever seen in British electoral history”.
I can hardly wait for tomorrow when the political pundits get started on this and the manifesto itself. For example; hundreds of millions to be spent on "filling in potholes" (apparently spurred by Johnson having ridden blindly into one and come a cropper) while many working people are having to resort to food banks. There is no need for government to start waffling on about special funds to fill in pot holes, government merely needs to restore local government funding to where it once was and the councils will take care of the problem which was of course caused by government taking the councils' funds in the first place! Incidentally, I bet you most councils would tell you that filling pot holes in is a waste of money. The road needs to be repaired properly. Fill in the pot hole and walk away muttering "job done" will lead to a never ending cycle of perpetual pot hole filling. Still, better to stuff fivers into the pot holes than ensure working people are taken out of poverty, eh! And I don't think any semi sane person would dare suggest that the less than £2 per week working people are being offered via a change in the N.I. threshold will do it. And before the arguments over that sum begin, the Tories are promising this for one year only. Beyond one year, it is an aspiration only.
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Old 24th Nov 2019, 22:12
  #11682 (permalink)  
 
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Fly Aiprt; UK politicians have for the last 3 decades used “the EU” as the excuse for all that is wrong in the UK. This is part of the reason why I think a large percentage of voters, myself included, voted leave. I want my government, be it red or blue, to be accountable to us, the citizens of the UK.
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Old 24th Nov 2019, 22:36
  #11683 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
Fly Aiprt; UK politicians have for the last 3 decades used “the EU” as the excuse for all that is wrong in the UK. This is part of the reason why I think a large percentage of voters, myself included, voted leave. I want my government, be it red or blue, to be accountable to us, the citizens of the UK.

They'll be if you hold them accountable, they'll not if you let them get away with whatever they did or failed to do.
Didn't it occur to you that the EU will still be the excuse : "they didn't give us a good deal", " they bullied us", "they prevented us from leaving", "they are retaliating"...
Isn't it a bit naïve to vote for the ruin of one's businesses just in the hope that your politicians will say "we are accountable for this or that" ?
The voters are responsible for whomever they elect, maybe they fooled you in the past, shame on you if you re-elect them....

Last edited by Fly Aiprt; 25th Nov 2019 at 07:20. Reason: Typo
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Old 24th Nov 2019, 22:45
  #11684 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
If all this new spending without additional taxation is possible, why hasn't it been done already?
Because-we-were-in-the-EU-clutches ?
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 05:07
  #11685 (permalink)  
 
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This WASPI women wheeze is a cracker. Imagine the effect on a 64 year old working class habitual Labour voter thinking of deserting to Brexit. Faced with the proposition of a £20k+ weigh out , new car, family holiday to Disney. To paraphrase Boris who could blame them for thinking F*** Brexit and grabbing the wonga? It won't win the election outright but it may well save gran dad's bacon and settle Pfeffel's hash.
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 05:21
  #11686 (permalink)  
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Where would politics be these days without.......a bus. Even Nige had one, briefly, albeit a clapped out double decker during one of his many ( failed ) reincarnations of....himself.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ifesto-cartoon

In other news, the Sun, abreast of the times as always, proudly tells its readers that austerity will end !........which Treeza did some time ago but which hasn't as we know.

Also, the manifesto. Thus far, as with all the spending splurge plans, one fact seems to have been conveniently ignored.

The one about these plans and policies attempting to remedy the damage caused by the years in Gov't thus far.......
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 07:13
  #11687 (permalink)  
 
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Isn't the Tory party also known as the "Conservative & Unionist Party"? With emphasis on the 'Unionist' bit? Given that, why would Boris find it necessary to travel to North Wales today to launch a Welsh manifesto? In fact, I just heard Nicky Morgan refer to the "one nation way" on Radio 4.
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 08:35
  #11688 (permalink)  
 
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The Unionist bit was their old friends with bowler hats, drums and fifes across the water. The Tories never ran candidates in N Ireland but depended on the support of the Unionist MP's in return.

No longer relevant after Boris stitched them up over BREXIT
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 09:27
  #11689 (permalink)  
 
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The contributors who complained the manifesto didn't have costings attached, and when proved wrong doubled down on their endemic hatred of the Conservative Party in general and Boris in particular might like to read a (genuinely) independant view:

https://capx.co/is-the-tory-manifest...y-responsible/
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 09:51
  #11690 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
read a (genuinely) independant view:

https://capx.co/is-the-tory-manifest...y-responsible/
Fitter, have you read what you link to ?
From the start this simple phrase :
The Conservative manifesto launch launch was dominated by the theme of getting Brexit done to allow the Government to refocus on the ‘people’s priorities’, including the NHS, schools, policing and investment in infrastructure.
demonstrates a total lack of comprehension - or honesty - about what Brexit is all about.

"Get Brexit approved by Parliament" might be just a matter of months now.
"Get Brexit done" is another matter, and might very well take years, a decade or even a generation...
The withdrawal agreement is just the end of the beginning. Once it is implemented, and only then, will the survival agreements need to be negotiated.
After that, when you're back to an economic situation more or less equivalent to the present one, then you'll be able to concentrate on NHS, education, police, infrastructure etc.
If there's some money left, that is...

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Old 25th Nov 2019, 10:05
  #11691 (permalink)  
 
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Fly Aiprt; Boris' campaign speeches have been a constant litany of "let's get Brexit done so we (meaning Parliarment) can get on the with normal business of government ie; sorting out the domestic issues of the NHS, police etc etc. thus the comment in the capx article is valid.
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 10:29
  #11692 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
"let's get Brexit done.
Not as catchy as his previous hit 'take back control' but to me still means lets keep ourselves in power while the opposition are in more of a mess than we are. What actually is achieved with that power is anybody's guess but it will probably be for the few and the not the many.

If anyone had told me not that many years ago we would have an ERG type Government with Alexander BoJo as PM I would have laughed. I'm not laughing now. WTF just happened?
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 11:41
  #11693 (permalink)  
 
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The contributors who complained the manifesto didn't have costings attached
I am taking a wild guess here but I suspect this comment may refer to me. So, in defence of my stance, I will repeat what I wrote originally:
the "manifesto would come with the “most transparent” explanation of how the policies would be paid for ever seen in British electoral history”
Now show me the bit in either the manifesto or the appendix that shows how these policies would be paid for.
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 11:46
  #11694 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
Fly Aiprt; Boris' campaign speeches have been a constant litany of "let's get Brexit done so we (meaning Parliarment) can get on the with normal business of government ie; sorting out the domestic issues of the NHS, police etc etc. thus the comment in the capx article is valid.
Agreed, but if the premise is flawed, the conclusion has no sense.
Wise people would sort out normal business, and then go for the fancy stuff.
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 11:56
  #11695 (permalink)  
 
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Fly Aiprt; you are skating on very thin ice by using the word "wise" adjacent to a quote containing the word "Boris"
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 12:41
  #11696 (permalink)  
 
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In terms of policy statements, a nice summary:


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Old 25th Nov 2019, 14:27
  #11697 (permalink)  
 
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Ohhh Dear, Another Jobsworth copper, One does hope he is reducated, MADE to apologise, the force pay to replace the removed decals and the said copper reinstall them.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-50544243
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 14:33
  #11698 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Ohhh Dear, Another Jobsworth copper, One does hope he is reducated and the force pay to replace the removed decals.
How undemocratic !
In my country, anybody has a right to have a " b****cks to Brexit " decal on one's car...

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Old 25th Nov 2019, 14:36
  #11699 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
How undemocratic !
In my country, anybody has a right to have a " b****cks to Brexit " decal on one's car...
An Essex Police spokeswoman said: "We are trying to identify the officer from the video footage to establish the circumstances around what happened."In the meantime, we would encourage the driver to get in touch with us."In November 1977, Nottingham Magistrates' Court ruled "bollocks" was not an obscene word in the case of a record store manager who had been arrested for displaying the Sex Pistols' debut album Never Mind The Bollocks, Here's The Sex Pistols.
Not exactly rocket science identifying the copper. as his van reg is on show and also why are the police not contacting the driver and not the other way around, they have his registration.
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 15:32
  #11700 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Not exactly rocket science identifying the copper. as his van reg is on show and also why are the police not contacting the driver and not the other way around, they have his registration.
Ha ha, when Brexit's done, they'll have time to reorganize the police ;-)


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