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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 26th Sep 2019, 21:52
  #10661 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
By who? The government currently has a majority of -40.

If they had a majority they could repeal the Benn Act anyway.

And if the passing of the Act, as it would, caused the dissolution, there wouldn’t be a parliament or MPs to amend it.
From the Institute for Government website...

Could the prime minister change his mind about the date of an early election after setting one?

In theory, the prime minister probably could change his mind about the date of the early election after persuading Parliament to call one. He could advise the Queen to proclaim an election date that is different from the one he promised to Parliament. Or, he could advise the Queen to proclaim one election date, and then later advise her to issue a second proclamation changing the date.

The only caveat is that there may be an attempt in court to challenge any such decision about the date of an election. If the court considered that the prime minister had abused his powers over an election date, or exercised those powers for improper purpose, then it might be persuaded to intervene. However, the bar for any judicial review would be high, and it is not clear whether these decisions are even justiciable.


I asked the question because I was sure this had been raised by talking heads on tv.

CG
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 06:49
  #10662 (permalink)  
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CG,

That is true under the Fixed Term Parliament Act *- it would not be true for an Act which specified the date of the election.

*Article 2(7) applies.

Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011

“7)If a parliamentary general election is to take place as provided for by subsection (1) or (3), the polling day for the election is to be the day appointed by Her Majesty by proclamation on the recommendation of the Prime Minister”........
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 08:20
  #10663 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
CG,

That is true under the Fixed Term Parliament Act *- it would not be true for an Act which specified the date of the election.

*Article 2(7) applies.

Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011

“7)If a parliamentary general election is to take place as provided for by subsection (1) or (3), the polling day for the election is to be the day appointed by Her Majesty by proclamation on the recommendation of the Prime Minister”........
I believe the contention is that once Parliament is dissolved, the government is able to operate without Parliamentary oversight, so in essence could amend legislation at will.
In such circumstances, with a suitably compliant cabinet the UK in essence would have an imperial PM, who could, if they so wished, change the stated date of the election.

Or at least that’s what’s being suggested in some quarters.

JAS
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 08:48
  #10664 (permalink)  
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I believe the contention is that once Parliament is dissolved, the government is able to operate without Parliamentary oversight, so in essence could amend legislation at will.
In such circumstances, with a suitably compliant cabinet the UK in essence would have an imperial PM, who could, if they so wished, change the stated date of the election.

Or at least that’s what’s being suggested in some quarters.
Post dissolution there are no MPs and legislation cannot be amended. The government, or at least Ministers of the Crown, remain in office, but their powers are severely constrained and cannot be used in such a manner to change the day of an election which had been written into law.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 09:00
  #10665 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [b
sixchannel;[/b]10580291]Ok so it looks like a No Deal Brexit.
Now then - hands up those who will tell me what will happen on the N.I. / Ireland border on Nov 1st?

I suspect absolutely nothing, which will expose the complete hypocrisy of the Leave campaigners as they will claim to have ended Freedom of Movement and gained back control of our borders whilst simultaneously allowing a totally open border between the EU and the UK through which ANYONE can pass at will.

The NI backstop is a totally unsolvable conundrum, there is only way to satisfy both parties, a united Ireland.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 10:23
  #10666 (permalink)  
 
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I have been criticised on here for not voting in the referendum. This issue highlights exactly why I did that. During the referendum campaign we were blitzed with information and disinformation. It is only since June 2016 that things such as the Irish question have come out. I agree that uniting Ireland is the only solution. This is the reason we now need Ref2.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 11:07
  #10667 (permalink)  
 
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After various opinion polling we do have a few council results that give us a pointer to how things are going.

Icknield: Lab 36.7 (-5.6)
Tory 35.4 (-8.8)
LD. 25.6 (+12.1)

Labour gained this seat by virtue of having a smaller loss of vote to the LD's than the Tories.

Ipswich. Lab 50.2 (-3.7)
LD. 19.6 (+10.3)
Tory 19.0 (-6.2)

A safe Labour seat retained. LD vote doubled to take second place.

​​​​​​​
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 11:33
  #10668 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
It is only since June 2016 that things such as the Irish question have come out. I agree that uniting Ireland is the only solution. This is the reason we now need Ref2.
Not intending to cast reproach, but how come "how on earth will they do with NI ?" was on everyone's mind in Europe, and yet nobody in the UK gave it a thought before the referendum ?

And yes the Brexit is a step on the path towards united Ireland.

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Old 27th Sep 2019, 11:43
  #10669 (permalink)  
 
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I am pretty sure it wasn't part of the campaign. I read and watch politics constantly bit don't recall it being raised as an issue.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 11:49
  #10670 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
I am pretty sure it wasn't part of the campaign. I read and watch politics constantly bit don't recall it being raised as an issue.
Of course not. The Brexit voters were all 'blinded by the light' of 350 millions for the NHS, and other lies.
To paraphrase the Doctor talking to JRM - What is the acceptable mortality rate of trying to unite the island of Ireland.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 12:54
  #10671 (permalink)  
 
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The Brexit affair is deadlocked :
Lots of lies and ignorance in the Leave decision.
Dealing after leaving as opposed as before doesn't seem reasonable.
Yet Brits don't want a Deal because of the NI border backstop.
Leavers are against a second referendum because it would be "against the will of the people"
General Elections won't change anything about the Deal/No-Deal/NI problem.

The people concerned with the NI in the UK are the people of NI.

Just ask what their will is.
Organize a binding referendum with two simple and well considered questions along those lines :
When and if the UK leaves the EU, where would you prefer the border controls to be :
a) NI ports and airports (= "in the Irish Sea")
b) NI/Ireland roads, crossings, etc. (= "Land hard border")

This would be democratic : will of the People
No backstop needed, PM and partisans save face and can sign the amended deal.
This British soap opera is ended.
The Four Green Fields might bloom once again...;-)
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 13:13
  #10672 (permalink)  
 
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Fly Aipt,

One big flaw in what you propose, and that is that the border is a border between two nations, so you should pose any related questions to the whole of Ireland.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 13:23
  #10673 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
Fly Aipt,

One big flaw in what you propose, and that is that the border is a border between two nations, so you should pose any related questions to the whole of Ireland.
Agreed. Had thought of that.
But given the Brexit decision with only UK citizens voting while involving borders between one country and 27 others...

But yes, it would be most democratic to leave those two nations sort out the problem between themselves.
Why would the English, Welsh and Scots interfere with the will of NI's people ?
What say you, Leavers^^?
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 13:34
  #10674 (permalink)  
 
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Northern Ireland is as much a part of Britain as Brittany is a part of France and Limburgh is a part of The Netherlands.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 13:36
  #10675 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder how many people trying to 'solve' Northern Ireland's 'problems' have ever visited Northern Ireland?
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 13:37
  #10676 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
Northern Ireland is as much a part of Britain as Brittany is a part of France and Limburgh is a part of The Netherlands.
And thereby is the Dilemma which should have been spelled out forcefully by the Remainers, instead of being all smug, sitting on their hands and expecting a sure victory.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 13:53
  #10677 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
I wonder how many people trying to 'solve' Northern Ireland's 'problems' have ever visited Northern Ireland?
Agreed

But yes, it would be most democratic to leave those two nations sort out the problem between themselves.
Why would the English, Welsh and Scots interfere with the will of NI's people ?
What say you, Leavers^^?
The NI backstop is a totally unsolvable conundrum, there is only way to satisfy both parties, a united Ireland.


And pray, how would that work??

The conflict was primarily political and nationalistic, fuelled by historical events.[33] It also had an ethnic or sectarian dimension,[34] although it was not a religious conflict.[13]
[35] A key issue was the constitutional status of Northern Ireland. Unionists/loyalists, who were mostly Protestants, wanted Northern Ireland to remain within the United Kingdom. Irish nationalists/republicans, who were mostly Catholics, wanted Northern Ireland to leave the United Kingdom and join a united Ireland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles




..

Last edited by NutLoose; 27th Sep 2019 at 14:11.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 14:11
  #10678 (permalink)  
 
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On the whole it looks like the UK is a Crazy Eddie problem and Brexit just brought it out for all to see.

You really are living in interesting times!
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 14:15
  #10679 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
Northern Ireland is as much a part of Britain as Brittany is a part of France and Limburgh is a part of The Netherlands.
Noel, Noel, there you go again.
Always confusing things, why didn't you listen at school ?

Britain is a landmass
NI is *one* of the four nations in the UK
But it is not in Britain.

This is Britain (= Great Britain) =>



While this is the UK :




No one is obliged to be witty. But ignorance is a sin, my son ;-)
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 14:27
  #10680 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post

And pray, how would that work??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
Contrary to leavers, nobody in Europe had forgotten the Troubles and where they did come from.
Europe contributed in restoring peace in Ireland.
Anybody against the backstop is trying to reestablish a hard border in Ireland.

The British could for once respect the will of the people there.
But we understand that some people in the UK would get mad at the idea.


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