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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 26th Sep 2019, 13:34
  #10641 (permalink)  
 
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I fear we may well see violence on our streets but it won't be because of anything Boris has said.

It will be because 17.4m people feel they are being ignored, that their vote is not worth as much as someone else's. That they are being told they are too stupid, old, bigoted or white to have their vote count for anything.

If you think it will be because Boris said 'humbug' then you are kidding yourself.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 15:51
  #10642 (permalink)  
 
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If everyone on the Opposition benches despise Johnson so much, why not call for a 'no confidence' vote?

We have a totally rotten Parliament that has been sitting for far, far too long without achieving anything.

A General Election is badly needed to clear out the rot and start with a fresh Parliament that is representing the People rather than the present lot that are representing themselves. Too many of the bench-blockers on those green benches scrounging too much of our taxpayer-funded money doing nothing but stagnating. We need a fresh start and legitimacy that only a General Election can give us. As soon as possible.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 16:35
  #10643 (permalink)  
 
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The only solution to the current parliamentary impasse is to deliver Brexit. Until Brexit happens, there are 17.4 million voters who will get increasingly annoyed and distrustful of politicians. When trust in the political process dies, the only resort is to violence. The comments made in parliament yesterday were just the faintest echo of what is being voiced on the streets, if anyone cares to listen. MPs are right to be fearful. They are just starting to have some idea of the threat of violence that millions in the UK live with every day due to deprivation and cut backs in policing and social services.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 16:42
  #10644 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
If everyone on the Opposition benches despise Johnson so much, why not call for a 'no confidence' vote?

We have a totally rotten Parliament that has been sitting for far, far too long without achieving anything.

A General Election is badly needed to clear out the rot and start with a fresh Parliament that is representing the People rather than the present lot that are representing themselves. Too many of the bench-blockers on those green benches scrounging too much of our taxpayer-funded money doing nothing but stagnating. We need a fresh start and legitimacy that only a General Election can give us. As soon as possible.
According to commentators, the reason for not doing so is that it would most likely lead to a general election. The direct consequence of that would be the dissolution of Parliament, with the only actor on the stage left standing being the PM, who can then move the election date at will (subject to possible court intervention it would now seem).

The idea being put forward is that in such a scenario, the current resident of #10 would choose a date post 31st Oct thus causing a no deal brexit.

JAS
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 16:46
  #10645 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
If everyone on the Opposition benches despise Johnson so much, why not call for a 'no confidence' vote?
I'm sure you already know the answer.
There's no point in calling an election to get rid of him if he's going to win it and come straight back as PM.
​​​​
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 16:48
  #10646 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I'm sure you already know t
Because it is entirely poss
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Run out of Letraset? Lol.
They need to be careful what they wish for.
And so should we.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 16:54
  #10647 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I'm sure you already know the answer.
There's no point in calling an election to get rid of him if he's going to win it and come straight back as PM.
​​​​
So, in effect what you are actually saying is that Parliament no longer represents the people?
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 17:43
  #10648 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
So, in effect what you are actually saying is that Parliament no longer represents the people?
There's no point in you trying to insert something I didn't say. I simply answered your question.
I know that's not expected here, but there y'go.
​​​​​​
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 18:24
  #10649 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not trying to insert something that you didn't say, I am just trying to work out the logical implications from what you said.

By the way, I fully agree with what you said!!
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 19:19
  #10650 (permalink)  
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According to commentators, the reason for not doing so is that it would most likely lead to a general election. The direct consequence of that would be the dissolution of Parliament, with the only actor on the stage left standing being the PM, who can then move the election date at will (subject to possible court intervention it would now seem). The idea being put forward is that in such a scenario, the current resident of #10 would choose a date post 31st Oct thus causing a no deal brexit.
Which is total bullshite.

All it needs is a one line Act of Parliament which states that, “Notwithstanding the Fixed Term Parliament Act, a general election will be held on 24th October”.

That would allow ample time for whoever won the election to write a letter requesting an extension - or to repeal the Benn Act - as they saw fit.

The simple fact is that currently they see Boris as likely to win a majority, and see the need to humble him and force him to ask for an extension as vital to reduce his appeal to leave supporters before an election, nothing else.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 19:32
  #10651 (permalink)  
 
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So Felix flyer feels that " that their vote is not worth as much as someone else's. and suggests that there should be a General Election.
I hope that he (or she) is aware that the GE in UK is operated on the 'First past the post' system. He, or she. will, no doubt, have fully considered the implications of such arrangements viz. if. for example you live in a 'safe' Labour constituency and you vote Tory, your vote is of NO consequence, Similarly if you libe in a 'safe' Tory constituency as a Labour voter. If you vote Liberal you need about 5 times as many votes per seat as the two major Parties and if you want a Green MP, they will need a special dispensation from on high. That's all for your 'common' voter, of course. If you want to have a REAL effect on the GE outcome, get yourself appointed to the Boundaries Commission , or whatever they style themselves. They, with strokes of their decisive pens, can modify the results by up to 20 seats , one way or the other!! Just imagine that sort of voting clout!! However, this is our 'Democratic' (there's THAT word again!) Peoples' Representation system, so it must be jolly good and fair ... No? "vote not worth as much as someone else's" ???
Anyway, my liberal, - principle, rather than, necessarily political, heart soared at the realisation that our representative body was, this very afternoon, about to debate " The principle of Democracy" or some such motion. At last, I thought, they will crowd the Chamber, eager to educate we non-politicos in the finer points of fair representation and the joys of individual participation in the body politic. Of the something over 650 elected Members, I counted a TOTAL of around 32 or 33 with the Government providing a dozen or so. What price "recovering our Sovreignty" from those awful Continentals?. Do you think it has been absent for so long that they don't know what to do with it any more? There might be a joke there, somewhere. A little humour to leaven the endless stupidities of the last nine years?
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 19:41
  #10652 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
All it needs is a one line Act of Parliament which states that, “Notwithstanding the Fixed Term Parliament Act, a general election will be held on 24th October”.

That would allow ample time for whoever won the election to write a letter requesting an extension - or to repeal the Benn Act - as they saw fit.

Hope this won't happen.
Hold those elections *after* the term, nobody wants the UK in the EU again. Ever.
Leave is leave.
It's just a matter of doing it as intelligently as possible.

Those shenanigans will have been a nuisance for the 27 up to the end.


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Old 26th Sep 2019, 19:46
  #10653 (permalink)  
 
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Ok so it looks like a No Deal Brexit.
Now then - hands up those who will tell me what will happen on the N.I. / Ireland border on Nov 1st?

Last edited by sixchannel; 26th Sep 2019 at 19:59.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 20:22
  #10654 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Which is total bullshite.

All it needs is a one line Act of Parliament which states that, “Notwithstanding the Fixed Term Parliament Act, a general election will be held on 24th October”.

That would allow ample time for whoever won the election to write a letter requesting an extension - or to repeal the Benn Act - as they saw fit.

The simple fact is that currently they see Boris as likely to win a majority, and see the need to humble him and force him to ask for an extension as vital to reduce his appeal to leave supporters before an election, nothing else.
Are you suggesting that if the one line Act states say, '24th October', that can't subsequently be amended to, say, '1st November'? If a wily PM wanted to screw over the rebels and induce a crashout?

CG
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 20:43
  #10655 (permalink)  
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This ignores the elephant in the room, or rather in Brussels. Parliament can huff and puff all it likes but it is Brussels that is in control.

If Boris does not ask for an extension then we are out.
If Boris does not get a deal and does not ask for an extension then we are out.
If Boris asks for an extension but does not get it, then we are out.

If Parliament agrees a deal then we are out.

Only if the EU offers an extension . . .

Why can't Parliament recognize the reality?
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 20:59
  #10656 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
This ignores the elephant in the room, or rather in Brussels. Parliament can huff and puff all it likes but it is Brussels that is in control.

If Boris does not ask for an extension then we are out.
If Boris does not get a deal and does not ask for an extension then we are out.
If Boris asks for an extension but does not get it, then we are out.

If Parliament agrees a deal then we are out.

Only if the EU offers an extension . . .

Why can't Parliament recognize the reality?
Personally I think Europe will give the U.K. another extension. If nothing else it keeps the popcorn manufacturers in business whilst the E.U. watch the U.K. repeatedly stab itself in the back whilst at the same time shooting itself in the foot.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 21:04
  #10657 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect the reason Labour are side stepping a GE is because they suspect they know that their current leader may well cost them victory - and I’m a supporter of the party.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 21:25
  #10658 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post
Personally I think Europe will give the U.K. another extension. If nothing else it keeps the popcorn manufacturers in business whilst the E.U. watch the U.K. repeatedly stab itself in the back whilst at the same time shooting itself in the foot.
Most probable.
If the PM asks for an extension, that is.

But, elections will probably be favourable to the leavers. Unless the Queen steps into politics and calls someone else, BJ will again be PM, and he gave his word he wouldn't ask for an extension nor sign May's deal.
What will he do ?

Waiting for October with bated breath ;-)

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Old 26th Sep 2019, 21:26
  #10659 (permalink)  
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Are you suggesting that if the one line Act states say, '24th October', that can't subsequently be amended to, say, '1st November'? If a wily PM wanted to screw over the rebels and induce a crashout?
By who? The government currently has a majority of -40.

If they had a majority they could repeal the Benn Act anyway.

And if the passing of the Act, as it would, caused the dissolution, there wouldn’t be a parliament or MPs to amend it.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 21:51
  #10660 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
The only solution to the current parliamentary impasse is to deliver Brexit. Until Brexit happens, there are 17.4 million voters who will get increasingly annoyed and distrustful of politicians. When trust in the political process dies, the only resort is to violence. The comments made in parliament yesterday were just the faintest echo of what is being voiced on the streets, if anyone cares to listen. MPs are right to be fearful. They are just starting to have some idea of the threat of violence that millions in the UK live with every day due to deprivation and cut backs in policing and social services.




My bold. Can't agree with that. I don't hear anyone on the streets where I live voicing anything violent or indeed anything at all concerning the matter of Brexit which brings me to my second point. Violence is not the only resort when the political process dies. By and large complete disengagement is the more likely reaction I would have thought apart from maybe a few isolated pockets of dissent no matter which way Brexit finally goes.
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