Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 7th Dec 2018, 13:37
  #1021 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chez Sprog
Posts: 493
Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
That may be true. For now. I can see it arising in France as the whole issue revolves around France's efforts to reduce vehicle pollution in accord with EU specified targets for all EU countries. Now that Macron has dropped the tax he wanted to use as a tool to reduce vehicle related pollution I wonder how long it will be before the French government begin claiming "It wasn't our fault, we were obeying Brussels directives"?
If he does that, fair enough. Until then, you're merely attaching an anti EU bias to a domestic issue. Now why would you do that?
Sprogget is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 14:18
  #1022 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
Posts: 335
Well it seems the government doesn't agree that we can trade normally on March 30th under WTO

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46480374
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 15:28
  #1023 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 72
Posts: 742
Until then, you're merely attaching an anti EU bias to a domestic issue. Now why would you do that?
Now who said I was doing anything of the sort? I was merely offering a suggestion of how things may turn out in France. Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn!
KelvinD is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 15:51
  #1024 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chez Sprog
Posts: 493
Oh.I must have misread this fairly clear line then. Silly me.

Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I wonder how long it will be before the French government begin claiming "It wasn't our fault, we were obeying Brussels directives"?
Sprogget is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 17:03
  #1025 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
The key point you conveniently overlook in this wordy diatribe is the government held an advisory referendum which they chose to treat as binding when they were under no obligation to do so. I'm sad you can't grasp the fundamental tenet that Parliament is sovereign in a representative democracy but here we are. Again. Still on the bright side, most leavers I talk to banged on about the sovereignty of Parliament during the referendum. Now it's exercising that sovereignty in the light of clear & unambiguous information, you don't seem so keen suddenly. Funny old world.
Rubish.

MPs in Parliament (including those who considered leaving an existential threat to the economy) voted to trigger Article 50.

Have you forgotten Gina Miller and the Supreme Court).

Dutystude is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 17:24
  #1026 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chez Sprog
Posts: 493
Originally Posted by Dutystude View Post


Rubish.

MPs in Parliament (including those who considered leaving an existential threat to the economy) voted to trigger Article 50.

Have you forgotten Gina Miller and the Supreme Court).

Rubish?

That was then. This is now. Now, those unicorns don't seem so attainable do they?
Sprogget is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 17:37
  #1027 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 790
Originally Posted by Icare9 View Post
.............The problem is that the democratic majority vote over the WHOLE of the UK was to Leave the EU. ..........................etc.
Ah yes, "The Will of the British People" that Brexiteers keep on huffing and puffing about.

Except it wasn't. There was a majority of the votes cast in favour of leaving, we all know that, please don't remind me. And the rules of the game are that this "majority" carried the day. Yup, no need to remind me about that either.

But the fact is that only 37% of those eligible to vote voted to Leave. And that means that 63% did not vote to leave. They either voted to Remain or they didn't give a toss so didn't vote. But they did NOT vote to leave.

So spare me the garbage about the "Will of the British People".

This is actually quite important; it means that no politician needs to be very afraid of ditching the whole sorry mess, and abandoning the leaving process. Only 37% of the population will feel affronted if that happens, probably a lot fewer as Leave voters realise the depth and breadth of the lies they were told and believed.
old,not bold is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 17:59
  #1028 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,123
Tak your pick - no more than 20% in favour of any of the possible ways ahead, and if replicated in the HoC, no chance of any majority consensus to change the present terms of the present act.


ORAC is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 18:07
  #1029 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: God's Country
Posts: 115
Originally Posted by old,not bold View Post
Ah yes, "The Will of the British People" that Brexiteers keep on huffing and puffing about.

Except it wasn't. There was a majority of the votes cast in favour of leaving, we all know that, please don't remind me. And the rules of the game are that this "majority" carried the day. Yup, no need to remind me about that either.

But the fact is that only 37% of those eligible to vote voted to Leave. And that means that 63% did not vote to leave. They either voted to Remain or they didn't give a toss so didn't vote. But they did NOT vote to leave.

So spare me the garbage about the "Will of the British People".

This is actually quite important; it means that no politician needs to be very afraid of ditching the whole sorry mess, and abandoning the leaving process. Only 37% of the population will feel affronted if that happens, probably a lot fewer as Leave voters realise the depth and breadth of the lies they were told and believed.
Ok, what % voted to remain?
By your reasoning an even fewer % will feel affronted by a no deal BREXIT😁
The Nip is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 18:25
  #1030 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
Posts: 335
Originally Posted by The Nip View Post


Ok, what % voted to remain?
By your reasoning an even fewer % will feel affronted by a no deal BREXIT😁
But REMAIN was the status quo. You don't need to vote for no change..
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 18:36
  #1031 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: God's Country
Posts: 115
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
But REMAIN was the status quo. You don't need to vote for no change..
Ok. Leave is now status quo. There will have to be a massive swing to change that. Do you agree?
The Nip is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 18:49
  #1032 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 790
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Tak your pick - no more than 20% in favour of any of the possible ways ahead, and if replicated in the HoC, no chance of any majority consensus to change the present terms of the present act.


That Ipsos Mori poll is ridiculous; it proved only that the more choices you offer the more you will reduce the share of the vote for each.

I could have added, say, 4 more possibilities, and there would have been votes for each.

1. Get 10,000,000 signatures on a Humble Petition to Brenda to take over direct rule and sort things out.

2. Lock up all the extremist MPs, on both sides of the argument in the Tower, and keep them incommunicado until the moderates sort it out sensibly.

3. As 2, and simply tell the EU we've changed our minds.

4. As 2, but also tell the Irish Republic they are welcome to take over the 6 Counties with immediate effect, and please don't send any Protestants over here, they're your problem. Then negotiate a good deal. Then let the EU and RoI establish whatever border controls they like all round the Irish coast. On our side of the Irish Sea all the controls are in place anyway. Allow Irish passport holders free access to the UK (provided it's reciprocated).

There, that's sorted. I bet each of those would have got at least 5% of the vote.
old,not bold is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 19:06
  #1033 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lincoln
Age: 67
Posts: 456
To put it in perspective approximately 35% of the eligible voters, voted remain, which means 65% of voters did not vote remain, they either voted exit, or they didn't give a toss so didn't vote. But they did NOT vote to remain.
Exrigger is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 19:11
  #1034 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,437
Originally Posted by old,not bold View Post
There, that's sorted. I bet each of those would have got at least 5% of the vote.
No.1 for me.

There's no clear contender to take over the Tory party when May is kicked out next week, and they all hate each others' guts so much that it's difficult to see how this can be resolved - we'd just get even more chaos.

There's also no clear contender to lead the government of national unity which would stop #brexit when Brenda does decide she has to take matters into her own hands, but in this case the hatred is completely absent, and any one of a number of candidates would be acceptable as a one-job temporary caretaker PM. Doesn't have to be one of my party: there are several Tories and several Labour MPs I'd be happy with. I am vaguely curious as to what the bookies are offering on Caroline Lucas? - she has no power base in the commons so couldn't be suspected of playing party political silly buggers.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 19:37
  #1035 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: n/a
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by old,not bold View Post
...But the fact is that only 37% of those eligible to vote voted to Leave...
Precisely.

This point was covered in the Grauniad recently. It references the 1979 devolution referendum in Scotland. In that particular case a late ammendment to introduce a 40% threshold made all the difference.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ion-referendum

In the 2016 model however, it is not so much the narrowness of the margin which made the difference, but reported financial irregularities behind the leave campaign.

On that basis the EU referendum result is unsafe and should be declared void.
sfm818 is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 19:45
  #1036 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lincoln
Age: 67
Posts: 456
But the fact is that only 35% of those eligible to vote voted to remain...
On that basis the EU referendum result is unsafe and should be declared void.
On the other hand, you could say that on that basis the result is safe and the result should be upheld.
Exrigger is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 19:47
  #1037 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Longton, Lancs, UK
Age: 75
Posts: 1,516
all we have had for over 2 years is little progress and a lot of posturing by a load of politicians (some of whom act as if they are above the law with practices that would see them facing the courts in any other profession), squabbling away instead of all uniting in one cause. to get the best for the UK and leave the EU amicably.
Instead they have made us look a load of buffoons led by clowns who can't see a tree in the woods.
A very fair appraisal, icare9
jindabyne is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 21:10
  #1038 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
Posts: 335
Originally Posted by The Nip View Post


Ok. Leave is now status quo. There will have to be a massive swing to change that. Do you agree?
No. The status quo is that we are in the EU
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 22:11
  #1039 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 60
Just out of interest, are you still convinced Brexit will happen? I detect a change in the air.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 22:46
  #1040 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,437
Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Just out of interest, are you still convinced Brexit will happen?
Sallyann won't believe it's over until it's over.

That's fine, it takes all sorts (including people who dye their hair blue and drive around in big yellow Bollocks to Brexit buses), one size doesn't fit all, and we wouldn't want people to start getting complacent now would we.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.