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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 29th Aug 2019, 11:37
  #9701 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
ATNotts

I needed a good laugh this morning.

After his recent statements he would have no choice but to press on with a no-deal exit, certainly he couldn't support the backstop.

Any attempt to pursue a further extension would lead to the question of why by the EU and, with a majority of only one, an immediate election where the Conservatives would be wiped out by the BXP.
Johnson changes his mind in a chameleon manner, nothing is beyond the lying kniving twerp. I don't believe you read what I said. The logic behind such a move is simply that whichever option the opposition chose they'd either secure Brexit, and satisfy all but the extremists, or enable a no deal Brexit that would be blamed fair and square on the opposition. Granted, he may get a larger majority without the thorn in his side that is Farage and his extremist Brexiteer party, but the majority in the country, I think remainers and leavers want Brexit sorted and the less damage that does for Boris Johnson's ego the better. A general election in the immediate aftermath of a no deal Brexit precipitated by the Conservatives could well result in a Labour government, even if in coalition with the SNP or LibDems. Neither have said they'll work with Corbyn, but a sniff of power and politicians change their minds pretty quickly.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 11:56
  #9702 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Nonsense. Everything written on here, unless a quotation from elsewhere, is the poster's opinion.

My opinion is that she would advise against an extremely unusual prorogation of Parliament that sets a precedent for possible future abuse.
But my understanding is that The Queen has no option to advise in this matter. The advice comes from the PM, and only the PM, to the Monarch and the Monarch approves it. Whether the PMs advice was properly formed might be the subject of a legal challenge, I think we will have to wait and see on that.

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Old 29th Aug 2019, 12:01
  #9703 (permalink)  
 
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ATNotts

Johnson changes his mind in a chameleon manner, nothing is beyond the lying kniving twerp
Come on, get off the fence - tell us what you really think. (Kniving - interesting word, or did you mean conniving?)
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 12:08
  #9704 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Groundbased View Post
But my understanding is that The Queen has no option to advise in this matter. The advice comes from the PM, and only the PM, to the Monarch and the Monarch approves it. Whether the PMs advice was properly formed might be the subject of a legal challenge, I think we will have to wait and see on that.
I think that about sums up the position that HMQ finds herself. Had she told Johnson's possie that turned up at her front door yesterday to go sling their and their boss' collective hook we'd probably wind up with a bigger constitutional crisis than we're heading for at the moment.

What these most recent shenanigans illustrate is the need for a proper, modern, written constitution that can be policed by a constitutional court. Will we get one? I doubt it. Our politicians are happier with the system as it is, and the nation so backward looking and steeped tradition that they just wouldn't have it. It's not "British".
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 12:30
  #9705 (permalink)  
 
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Before the Referendum, we were informed that a remain vote was guaranteed because leaving the EU would be too difficult and the country would be ruined with immediate economic collapse the day after the result was declared.

The people voted to leave the EU and the economy has essentially flourished in the face of trade wars and recession elsewhere. Over three years of parliamentary debate have been devoted to how after 40 years it is too difficult to extricate the UK from the EU Gordian knot.

Finally we have a politician who acknowledges what the public have known all along, we can just walk away from the EU after all with no pre arranged deal. Of course the minority remain group are panicking, they might have to actually work for a living instead of relying on EU grants and subsidies.

As for The Queen having had a long and mostly peaceful reign? How short are peoples memories. She has reigned through several wars, been subject to several assassination attempts, awoken to an intruder in her bedroom, faced down demands to abdicate in the wake of the death of Princess Diana and many other threats to her monarchy. Brexit is just the merest ripple on the sea of troubles she has navigated throughout her reign.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 12:33
  #9706 (permalink)  
 
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Ruth Davidson this morning backed Boris Johnson’s plan to deliver a Brexit deal by suspending parliament as she quit as leader of the Scottish Conservatives.

She called a press conference in Edinburgh to announce that she was stepping down. Afterwards, her spokesman said that she supported Mr Johnson’s approach to getting a deal with the European Union.

Ms Davidson said: “If it requires a new Queen’s Speech to bring back a deal what I would encourage colleagues is not to blow it.”

Taken from the today's Times.

Do those who were singing her praises yesterday and saying that she is going due to the actions BJ took, care to comment?
Or will there be the usual denials that she doesn't mean what she says?

It appears that the BBC/SKY/Channel 4 and others were desparate for RD to blame the PM. They must be fuming.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 12:35
  #9707 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=Cornish Jack;10556506]" a transition in line with the electorates wishes !
So let's hear it one more time - 17.4 million . Unfortunately, there were 40.8 million entitled to vote at the time and, even if you feel that the majority of the ELECTORATE can be ignored, it still leaves us in a situation where the wishes of LESS than 30% of the population are being foisted on the rest of us.[/çQUOTE]

....entitled to vote at the time, but for whatever reason,chose NOT to....

There you go....that's the bit you again conveniently chose to leave out.....again.....
*
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 13:11
  #9708 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
ATNotts



Come on, get off the fence - tell us what you really think. (Kniving - interesting word, or did you mean conniving?)
Probably conniving - I've always spelled it incorrectly, hadn't bothered to check before, so thanks for that.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 14:27
  #9709 (permalink)  
 
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" Hadn't bothered" speaks volumes.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 15:21
  #9710 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Barksdale Boy View Post
" Hadn't bothered" speaks volumes.
If I had the time, or the inclination I'd check back over your knocking on 300 postings and pick holes in your spelling and grammar. As it is I've better things to do with my time.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 19:54
  #9711 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...ssed-s2lx29g7f

A YouGov poll for The Times shows that 34 per cent of voters would back the Tories, up two points in a week.

This is the highest since March 25, four days before the Brexit deadline Theresa May missed, which triggered a sharp drop in support. The Tories have a 12-point lead over Labour on 22 per cent. The Liberal Democrats are on 17 per cent — down three points in a week — losing all of the gains since the European parliament elections in May. The Brexit Party is on 13 per cent and the Greens 8 per cent.

With 40 per cent of votes, Mr Johnson was backed to be the best prime minister and 20 per cent backed Jeremy Corbyn. The survey was carried out on Tuesday and yesterday, before and after the prorogation announcement.

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/...ndary=2017base

National Prediction: Conservative majority 132
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 21:31
  #9712 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
And if they are so outraged about the situation why bother with all this protesting? Why bother with petitions? Why bother with the courts. It can all be simply stopped next week by calling for that vote of confidence in the Government.
Depends what "all" it is that people want stopped.

For some of them, the following sequence of events
  • VONC
  • general election in November
  • crash out of EU with no deal on 31 October
is not going to "simply stop" it "all", because for them "no deal brexit", or any "brexit", is included in the "all" that they want to "stop".
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 21:36
  #9713 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
How ironic that the complaints of “constitutional outrage” come from the same individuals who wanted to appoint Corbyn as PM with no democratic process ...
Um no, there are quite a lot of people who are complaining about the "constitutional outrage" but most certainly do not want to appoint Corbyn as anything at all. Including me. And including some[#] hundreds of thousands of these 1.5m people: https://petition.parliament.uk/petit...SVLVwm2uOF2Sds

[#] No, I don't know how may hundreds of thousands of them, because there will be some cultists in there.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 23:34
  #9714 (permalink)  
 
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I'm sure Bercow will have another remoaner outrage of his own up his sleeve to attempt to balance the score.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 06:53
  #9715 (permalink)  
 
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Found this article on Prorogation:

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other...ory/ar-AAGsMub

And a bit more information from another site:

https://www.parliament.uk/about/livi...1/prorogation/
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 07:07
  #9716 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sherburn2LA View Post
I'm sure Bercow will have another remoaner outrage of his own up his sleeve to attempt to balance the score.
pushing a no deal Brexit may push remainers who were prepared to accept the very narrow leave vote back to the remain side

this creates a no leave parliament

stops Brexit

even stops leave with the same parliament

reverts back to a second referendum

Does anyone seriously think a second referendum would result in a leave result?

that order of play is the one most feared by the no deal Brexit team which is running the country at the moment
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 07:25
  #9717 (permalink)  
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/j...lves-fpcbxlq25

Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour losing appeal with students as support halves

Support for Labour among students has almost halved in 18 months, a survey suggested yesterday. The party’s position on Brexit may be causing voters to flock towards Remain-supporting parties such as the Liberal Democrats, according to the survey of almost 1,000 students.

Labour still has the support of 38 per cent of students who said that they were likely to vote, putting them ahead of other mainstream parties. However, this was a drop of more than 30 points from February last year, when 70 per cent said that they would vote Labour. In the latest survey, commissioned by Times Higher Education magazine, support for the Lib Dems was at 19 per cent, the Green Party recorded 18 per cent and the Conservatives 12 per cent......

Sir John Curtice, professor of politics at the University of Strathclyde, who has led a team crunching UK election exit poll data since 1992, said the survey reflected the national picture. “The Liberal Democrat revival is mostly based on Remain voters; [they] have hardly picked up a single Leave voter during the course of this year,” he said.


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Old 30th Aug 2019, 08:52
  #9718 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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Labour still has the support of 38 per cent of students who said that they were likely to vote, putting them ahead of other mainstream parties.
If these students how many are registered? How many that are registered have a postal vote registered at home? How many are registered at their current university address?

Based on personal observation many have been registered by head of household at their home address. Some may possibly also be registered at university.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 09:12
  #9719 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Depends what "all" it is that people want stopped.

For some of them, the following sequence of events
  • VONC
  • general election in November
  • crash out of EU with no deal on 31 October
is not going to "simply stop" it "all", because for them "no deal brexit", or any "brexit", is included in the "all" that they want to "stop".

The plan of the opponents to Brexit as I understand it is to call a VONC, install a mpuppet PM who will then ask the EU for an article 50 extension (the crucial bit) and then call a GE. A new Remain leaning government would then hold a new referendum. It depends on the EU agreeing to a suitable extension. In this event the 31 Oct deadline is dispensed with, is this not the proposed plan? I thought the LD’s wanted a new referendum?

Last edited by yellowtriumph; 30th Aug 2019 at 12:07.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 14:12
  #9720 (permalink)  
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For those who may have missed it.......the content summates matters perfectly.

One apologises for the delay in providing today's link due to operational reasons....

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e-dictatorship
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