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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 5th Dec 2018, 16:45
  #941 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
Happy to take this on receipt of any credible economic analysis that concludes no deal & crashing into WTO is a reasonable long term strategy.
Have yet to see any credible evidence that staying in, or May's current deal is any more, or less, of a long term economic strategy either, again just because remain says it is so, does not mean it is so, as has been said before we are not out yet and until we are out it is all conjecture, rumours and personnel opinion, on both sides of the argument, although the remain sides forecasts of what will happen to the economy post an exit vote has yet to come to fruition, so I am dis-inclined to believe their forecasts for when we ever leave.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 16:49
  #942 (permalink)  
 
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If you think it's remain & only remain warning of the catastrophic damage of crashing out into WTO, then you're effectively sticking your fingers in your ears & thcweaming. Like I say, I'll take any credible analysis since you're entitled to an alternative opinion. What you aren't entitled to is alternative facts.

So, do you have anything to offer?
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 17:10
  #943 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
If you think it's remain & only remain warning of the catastrophic damage of crashing out into WTO, then you're effectively sticking your fingers in your ears & thcweaming. Like I say, I'll take any credible analysis since you're entitled to an alternative opinion. What you aren't entitled to is alternative facts.

So, do you have anything to offer?
I have yet to see credible, or alternative credible facts for that matter, from either side, as I said, it is all just opinion as there is no historical data to analyse and make those forecasts, as no-one has left the EU before, so it is new territory for economists, business men, politicians and the public alike. So if you consider that as sticking my fingers in my ears and thcweaming, then that is also your opinion, not fact.

So, in answer to your question I have offered my opinion based on what I see and read and will offer no more, which is no more right or substantiated than those who disagree with me, and if you want to consider that a cop out, then that is your prerogative.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 17:20
  #944 (permalink)  
 
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I know it sounds a bit hard-line, but for me it's got to be a no-deal BrExit.
That's what many (or most) of us wanted when we voted to leave.
We don't want to leave under their rules, we want to leave without the EU dictating the conditions!
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 17:54
  #945 (permalink)  
 
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I know it sounds a bit hard-line, but for me it's got to be a no-deal BrExit.
That's what many (or most) of us wanted when we voted to leave.
We don't want to leave under their rules, we want to leave without the EU dictating the conditions
Me too, lets get on with it.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 17:58
  #946 (permalink)  
 
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Nomad2, you are spot on there.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 18:37
  #947 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nomad2 View Post
That's what many (or most) of us wanted when we voted to leave.
What I don't get is why people who want to leave don't just leave, and let the rest of us get on with our lives?
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 18:40
  #948 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
I have yet to see credible, or alternative credible facts for that matter, from either side, as I said, it is all just opinion as there is no historical data to analyse and make those forecasts, as no-one has left the EU before, so it is new territory for economists, business men, politicians and the public alike. So if you consider that as sticking my fingers in my ears and thcweaming, then that is also your opinion, not fact.

So, in answer to your question I have offered my opinion based on what I see and read and will offer no more, which is no more right or substantiated than those who disagree with me, and if you want to consider that a cop out, then that is your prerogative.
It's a bit rich to call someone else staggeringly naive then wilt under the first challenge. There are only two possibilities, you're either in the simplistic sound bite 'let's get on with it' camp, which is incredibly ignorant of the real world and how it actually works or you simply cannot support your position. And it's this attitude multiplied by millions that has led this great nation to becoming a laughing stock.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 18:41
  #949 (permalink)  
 
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Precisely and, given the majority voted to leave, those who voted to remain still have the right to move to another EU member state and continue their lives remaining in the EU. There are plenty to choose from, 27 in fact.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 18:48
  #950 (permalink)  
 
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No difference at all to what happens within the UK, where only big business can afford to lobby MPs and donate large amounts to political parties.
Sallyann
But thats the point. They are lobbying OUR Government. Our elected government decides to provide tax relief to small producers and the EU says thats too much leeway and directly interferes in our tax regime.

Your response conveniently forgets the context of the question that was posed, which was to describe s situation where the EU ssid we had too much leeway.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 19:04
  #951 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
What I don't get is why people who want to leave don't just leave, and let the rest of us get on with our lives?
and posted by C195 "Precisely and, given the majority voted to leave, those who voted to remain still have the right to move to another EU member state and continue their lives remaining in the EU. There are plenty to choose from, 27 in fact". just getting this in the correct order.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 20:07
  #952 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yotty View Post
those who voted to remain still have the right to move to another EU member state
Except that's a lie, isn't it, because that right is being taken away from us.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 20:21
  #953 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Except that's a lie, isn't it, because that right is being taken away from us.
AFAICS there i still nothing to prevent hardened remainers from wholly fulfilling their dreams and adopting the nationality of an EU state and buggering off to live there to live out their Federal European dreams. I've yet to hear of any ban in doing this, in fact, as I understand it, committed remainers will have a period of grace when they can follow their heart and join their EU brethren in an EU state of their choice even after we have left the EU, as long s they do it during the interim period when we are still adjusting to being outwith the EU.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 20:32
  #954 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
AFAICS I've yet to hear .
An awful lot of listening not being done by leavers. German salary requirements for EU residency: No lower limit. Non EU residents E54,000. Now, tell me again my rights aren't being diminished for this parochial fantasy.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 20:50
  #955 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
An awful lot of listening not being done by leavers.
Can't say as I blame them - all the news has been bad for leavers for some considerable time now, so fingers in ears eyes shut singing la-la-la at the tops of their voices is only what one would expect just right now.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 21:06
  #956 (permalink)  
 
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There has definitely been an increased stridency on the part of Leave supporters over the past few weeks. My feeling is that they see Brexit slipping away from them now and are fighting a desperate rearguard action. In this respect the invoking of the Dunkirk Spirit is particularly apt. Maybe a fleet of fishing boats will come to their rescue.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 21:37
  #957 (permalink)  
 
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Sprogett & NutLoose:
Labour's position on Brexit is as clear as mud
Try this then. It could be educational. On the other hand it may make you cry in your beer. Whatever, give it a go anyway. (And I am not a supporter of Corbyn).
Effluent Man:
There has definitely been an increased stridency on the part of Leave supporters over the past few weeks.
Where is this you have noticed the increased stridency? A quick check over the last few pages on here would suggest the opposite.
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Old 6th Dec 2018, 07:32
  #958 (permalink)  
 
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How can we have a Brexit if there is no EXIT?
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Old 6th Dec 2018, 07:36
  #959 (permalink)  
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Kelvin, did you forget your point?
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Old 6th Dec 2018, 07:39
  #960 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nomad2 View Post
I know it sounds a bit hard-line, but for me it's got to be a no-deal BrExit.
That's what many (or most) of us wanted when we voted to leave.
We don't want to leave under their rules, we want to leave without the EU dictating the conditions!
That's easy enough to say if you're in Hyderabad (can't think which country that's in!) but the poor sods that have live their lives, run their businesses and keep their financial heads above water may look at it rather differently.
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