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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 25th Jul 2019, 14:37
  #9181 (permalink)  
 
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PB
If you think the present government front bench are ultra-right goons, then you're obviously too young to know what the genuine article is.
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 15:25
  #9182 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
And, as an outsider looking in, he and his deputy, Coveney, appear a darn sight more competent that our bunch of extremist lunatics - at least the ones that Prime Minister Buffoon has put in place.
Eire has a population of 4.9 million .. thatís about 3.5 million less than London alone and even less than Scotland .It needs tremendous EU subsidies to
develop and it has done well out of membership at a cost to the main contributors . Obviously remaining is in their very best interests, a small developing country
with a talented young workforce, many of whom are in England btw.

when I try to delve into Varadkars political achievements I keep being informed about his championing of same sex marriage and gay rights .. commendable, but surely he has other qualities as a leader? itís just that nobody seems to be able to list them
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 15:30
  #9183 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Eclectic View Post
The £39bn is not sovereign debts.
It is reparations. Punishment for leaving the EU.
To frighten all the other countries who should leave the EU into remaining in this evil undemocratic superstate.

No itís not.
However, if we donít pay then there for sure wonít be any free trade negotiations with the EU. Which may not bother you. But it certainly bothers lots of people who depend on exporting into the EU for their jobs. For instance anyone involved in the car industry in your (and my) part of the world
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 15:44
  #9184 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Great post # 9174 ORAC....sums them up nicely.

However, what is disturbing is the number of former military ........if ever the minimal level of competency could be lowered, their background will ensure this happens.
What former military ? I counted only two ex Army Officers one of whom is the new defence minister. This seems like a reasonable additional qualification for the post does it not ?
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 15:53
  #9185 (permalink)  
 
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Having heard a bit of his Commons speech, I got the impression that he was going to withhold the £39bn we owe in the event of no deal. That's hardly going to facilitate any policies involving Europe, or any country that likes sovereign debts to be paid.
They are desperate not to lose it, did you not read the bit from the EU saying that they would allow Boris extra time bast the leave date if he paid the monies..

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...no-deal-brexit

Under the proposal discussed in Brussels, Johnson could maintain that he is on course to leave without an agreement while keeping open the option of coming to a deal with the bloc.EU leaders are also considering the steps they would take to avoid a crisis in the event that Johnson does press ahead with no deal on 31 October. A declaration has been mooted expressing the EU27’s regret at the lack of a deal and offering to re-engage if the UK accepts its financial commitments.
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 16:01
  #9186 (permalink)  
 
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I think theyíve probably spent or at least earmarked
the 39 billion for internal distribution, some leverage here if payment is withheld initially.
All about the money as is so often the case
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 16:02
  #9187 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Barksdale Boy View Post
PB
If you think the present government front bench are ultra-right goons, then you're obviously too young to know what the genuine article is.
Well that depends on how you define the "genuine article ", both across the globe and here in the UK. Lets start with the UK.

The "boot / bullet / club / torture " strategy wouldn't work here in the UK, but, a collective of similar minded ideologists intent on imposing their doctrine would. We know about the fringe groups, the BNP's brief foray into politics, UKIP (v 1 ) and the veneer of respectability followed by UKIP (v 2 ) where the veneer has now vanished. Which leaves ?...the Tory party. Thatcher commenced the change to hard right policies but eventually, they were to prove her downfall along with the party. The Tories regrouped however and, learning their lessons from her hardline approach chose Cameron as the "nice" face of their politics. However, what they didn't change was their subliminal commitment, in fact, being weaned politically under Thatcher, the new arrivals were just a bit more subtle, and, if anything even more autocratic than their predecessors.

Boris, and his Cabinet are, frankly, even more inclined towards autocracy masquerading as democracy. Many on here, and in the real world, are paranoid as to the prospect of Corbyn and the Labour party becoming the Gov't.

I don't have that paranoia about Labour, but I do have major concerns that, under Boris, the new Cabinet will be very heavily skewed towards their hard right ideology and in doing so will impose long term deprivation and hardship for millions of UK citizens, even more so if he's arrogant enough to massage his monstrous ego and we leave the EU with a "no deal " separation.

Have a look at those who have been quick to add their support for Boris.....and see what they all have in common.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...lobal-reaction






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Old 25th Jul 2019, 16:14
  #9188 (permalink)  
 
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For those who listened to all of Boris's speech, was there anything about "Let's fund our NHS instead" ?
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 16:23
  #9189 (permalink)  
 
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Again, if you think Thatcher was hard right you need to readjust you political compass . Iím not a great Thatcher fan but exaggeration tends to distort peopleís views and if I may offer some advice, which you will no doubt view as patronizing , stop believing everything those whey faced commentators on the guardian write.

Same goes for most of the other newspapers in the UK. All have a political left/ right bias as does the BBC
Often more balanced commentary is found in the overseas press even in EU member states
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 16:27
  #9190 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Jack D View Post
Again, if you think Thatcher was hard right you need to readjust you political compass . Iím not a great Thatcher fan but exaggeration tends to distort peopleís views and if I may offer some advice, which you will no doubt view as patronizing , stop believing everything those whey faced commentators on the guardian write.

Same goes for most of the other newspapers in the UK. All have a political left/ right bias as does the BBC
Often more balanced commentary is found in the overseas press even in EU member states
I don't have to rely on the media thank you........I lived through her regime...... and those of her successors. And now I'm about to live through Boris's version.

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Old 25th Jul 2019, 16:47
  #9191 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Having heard a bit of his Commons speech, I got the impression that he was going to withhold the £39bn we owe in the event of no deal. That's hardly going to facilitate any policies involving Europe, or any country that likes sovereign debts to be paid.

As for Varadkar, why should he be nervous? He has the full support of the EU and has already been promised billions of aid if needed.
My bold. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that a no deal Brexit will be a disaster out for Ireland. Here is but one recent article, although I donít know if the source is a reputable one or not. Plenty of others around.

Johnson has definitely stated the £39bn will be withheld in the event of no deal. Presumably the extra aid to Ireland you refer to will come from existing net contributors to EU funding - perhaps it is they who should be nervous.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/brexi...-plan-1572259/


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Old 25th Jul 2019, 16:48
  #9192 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
For those who listened to all of Boris's speech, was there anything about "Let's fund our NHS instead" ?
Yes there was. Try again.
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 17:25
  #9193 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Yes there was. Try again.
Would it be too much to hope he also mentioned something about bulldozers and prostrating himself underneath one then ?

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Old 25th Jul 2019, 17:30
  #9194 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Yes there was. Try again.
It was a serious question. Are you going to make me listen to it all?
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 17:41
  #9195 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
It was a serious question. Are you going to make me listen to it all?
OK, from memory it was something like "we are going to upgrade 20 new hospitals"

PS, found it:

My job is to make sure you donít have to wait 3 weeks to see your GP

and we start work this week with 20 new hospital upgrades, and ensuring that money for the NHS really does get to the front line
https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...r-24-july-2019
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 17:46
  #9196 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Having heard a bit of his Commons speech, I got the impression that he was going to withhold the £39bn we owe in the event of no deal. That's hardly going to facilitate any policies involving Europe, or any country that likes sovereign debts to be paid.

As for Varadkar, why should he be nervous? He has the full support of the EU and has already been promised billions of aid if needed.
They cut to an interview with Varadkar on Peston last night. To me he looked and sounded like a man that had just seen the rug pulled from underneath him....
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 17:47
  #9197 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
OK, from memory it was something like "we are going to upgrade 20 new hospitals"

PS, found it:

Quote]y job is to make sure you don’t have to wait 3 weeks to see your GP

and we start work this week with 20 new hospital upgrades, and ensuring that money for the NHS really does get to the front line
https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...r-24-july-2019[/QUOTE]

Thanks
Is this really new money, or the usual ploy of taking credit for something already agreed? If the work starts this week, it must be already planned.
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 18:02
  #9198 (permalink)  
 
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it must be already planned
Being planned, and authorised, are not necessary the same thing.
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 18:07
  #9199 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by zoigberg View Post



No itís not.
However, if we donít pay then there for sure wonít be any free trade negotiations with the EU. Which may not bother you. But it certainly bothers lots of people who depend on exporting into the EU for their jobs. For instance anyone involved in the car industry in your (and my) part of the world

There is this: https://publications.parliament.uk/p...dTextAnchor003
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 18:20
  #9200 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post


My bold. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that a no deal Brexit will be a disaster out for Ireland. Here is but one recent article, although I donít know if the source is a reputable one or not. Plenty of others around.

Johnson has definitely stated the £39bn will be withheld in the event of no deal. Presumably the extra aid to Ireland you refer to will come from existing net contributors to EU funding - perhaps it is they who should be nervous.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/brexi...-plan-1572259/


It seems that £6bn has already been paid. The figure is now £33bn.
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