Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 17th Jun 2019, 06:36
  #8701 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,742
BV,

As with the Conservatives, it’s not the voters but the membership which is driving Labour to this position. If you follow the link in the above article to the Observer on Sunday, you find the following. The Labour party conference taking place in September, and the Conservative party conference at the beginning of October.

Growing pressure is also coming from pro-EU Labour activists who are circulating anti-Brexit motions at constituency Labour parties (CLPs) for submission to the autumn annual conference in Brighton. By last night they said that more than 130 CLPs across the country had agreed to debate a motion which would commit Labour to “campaign energetically for a public vote and to remain”, and to “support revoking article 50 if necessary to prevent no deal.”

A similar motion will also be debated soon in Corbyn’s own Islington North CLP. It will note that the “vast majority of Labour members and voters oppose Brexit” and that conference “believes that Labour party policy must reflect this view and that we cannot go into any more elections without a clear policy for the UK to remain in the European Union.....
ORAC is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 07:44
  #8702 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,725
A new Labour campaign for a Remain vote would be sown in different ground from the 2016 referendum. It may also have better seed than Project Fear. It might germinate where the Tories failed.

Did Labour supporters vote Leave because Tories said Remain?
Would Labour supporters vote Remain because Tories said Leave?
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 07:55
  #8703 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 355
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
A new Labour campaign for a Remain vote would be sown in different ground from the 2016 referendum. It may also have better seed than Project Fear. It might germinate where the Tories failed.

Did Labour supporters vote Leave because Tories said Remain?
Would Labour supporters vote Remain because Tories said Leave?
Which is why Boris is intent us getting us out on Oct 31, by hook or by crook.
​​​​​​
​​
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 08:25
  #8704 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 68
Posts: 0
PN, A very valid point. I know several people who voted Leave who did so purely for the purpose of giving Cameron a bloody nose. If you add up all those around the country who did the same I would not be at all surprised if it cancels out the 3.8% lead that Leave achieved. I must admit that it may well have been the deciding factor when I decided not to cast my vote.

My guess is that in many northern constituencies not voting Tory is in the blood. They might vote Brexit of course as Farage isn't necessarily perceived as a Tory. Whatever happens Corbyn will never be an enthusiastic Remainer. His Brexit credentials compare well to Farage, Mogg and Raab.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 08:42
  #8705 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,742
But it will be an election, not a referendum, with the remain vote splitting between Labour, LibDem and Green, with a lot of voters being disillusioned by Corbyn since 2017.
ORAC is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 08:49
  #8706 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,725
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
with the remain vote splitting between Labour, LibDem and Green, with a lot of voters being disillusioned by Corbyn since 2017.
Cornyn is certainly a wild card but a spilt vote is surely optimistic. It might deny Labour a majority but would also deny the Tories one too.

A week is a long time . . .

The media focus has already moved on with Brexit barely mentioned.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 09:16
  #8707 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 68
Posts: 0
My guess is that the current split on Brexit is 55/45 Remain. The 45 is then split 15/30 Deal/ No Deal. Obviously a GE wouldn't be a straight fight on Brexit but many NoDeal voters would stick with Farage. So it's not actually that simple as to how or if the vote gets split.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 10:17
  #8708 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,742
If not now, when? A failure to implement Brexit means Farage will destroy the Conservative party, and the chances of getting no-deal through the present HoC is zero. The Conservatives have run out of options - and the polls show Boris will have a fighting chance.



ORAC is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 10:55
  #8709 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 4
None of your Conservative candidates sounded anything remotely like statesmen although what on earth the obligation is for them to engage in a tv debate is beyond my feeble comprehension. Let's have the Marxists up next. I'd love to hear Diane Abbott go a head to head with Jeremy Corbyn.
On Saturday evening, a bunch of old women chattering about how they'd furnish their church fête stalls would have been more cohesive and coherent.
Random jam jars, that's all you got, random jam jars full of strawberry, raspberry and here and there a piece of road kill.
The only hope Britain now has lies in Johnson and a swift snap general election that produces a good Conservative majority. If that doesn't happen, you'll be awaiting the largest decline in society and productivity since the Romans left in 450 AD.
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 11:03
  #8710 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 17,912
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Hadrian's Wall is not the Scottish border.
Thank **** for that, or I would have been jockanese having being born about 100 yards Norf of it.
NutLoose is online now  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 11:11
  #8711 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,742
You taking over as our token Border Reiver then, following the sad loss of Mr D?
ORAC is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 11:54
  #8712 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 4
I suspect that had you been born 100 paces north of the wall in Roman times, that would have made you a woady Pict with a price on your head.
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 13:16
  #8713 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 51.50N 1W (ish)
Posts: 1,023
Please can I ask 2 serious questions, and request a realistic answer telling me why I am wrong.

Mrs May's deal is nothing of the sort - it is an agreement to pay 39B Euros in return for a promise of trade talks, while we stay in the EU until a deal acceptable to the EU is reached.

If the UK rules out 'no deal' (i.e. WTO trading arrangement, with no obligation to pay into the EU budget), then we remain compliant with EU rules, payments, free movement, European Court jurisdiction until the EU is satisfied with what we are allowed.

1. What is the incentive for any UK Government entering renegotiation to rule out no deal,. when the EU has repeatedly demonstrated its determination to give UK 2 choices, revoke leaving the EU, or accept punitive measures?

2. Currently the EU is in industrial recession, significantly worse than UK; the Eurozone financial situation is perilous, propped up by Germany, France and Benelux, what is the incentive for UK to tie its future to an EU determined to pursue 'closer union' regardless of realpolitik?
Fitter2 is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 15:18
  #8714 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 55
Posts: 906
Police investigating Peterborough By-Election:

Peterborough by-election 'malpractice' police inquiry

Bribery and postal vote issues alleged.........
Andy_S is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 15:38
  #8715 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,957
Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Police investigating Peterborough By-Election:

Peterborough by-election 'malpractice' police inquiry

Bribery and postal vote issues alleged.........
Postal votes = older demographic = more like Brexit party voters. Likely as not the result would have been a larger majority than the Labour candidate received if malpractice is proved.

This postal voting farce has to stop, as does voting at a poling station without presenting ID. The UK is no longer the land of Miss Marple, Dixon of Dock Green, Trumpton and Greendale. We really do need to get a grip. In an age where you can pick a package up from the sorting office without ID, why you should be able to vote on trust I simply fail to understand.
ATNotts is online now  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 17:43
  #8716 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 4,978
They probably found a thousand postal votes all arriving in one envelope.
Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 17:50
  #8717 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 51.50N 1W (ish)
Posts: 1,023
Postal votes = older demographic = more like Brexit party voters.
Evidence for the above statement? Previous postal vote scandals involved multiple applications with names expected for those of Asian immigrants. Whether they were for or against Brexit is a completely unknown.

I fully agree that a postal vote should only be allowed with good evidence of its necessity. My only use of the system was when I was at the time on an oil exploration in the South China Sea, a valid reason in my view.
Fitter2 is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 18:01
  #8718 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,811
Progress

You’d think in this day and age we could come up with a computerised system that could be unhackable and take away a lot of the hassle.

Some sort of national database of fingerprints or retina scans or something could be used but, of course, that would infringe peoples civil liberties. We can’t have that now can we.

Far better to have an archaic system that is open to fraud and tampering.

I’m sorry. It’s bedtime and I’m feeling grumpy and slightly mischievous.

Night night everyone.

BV
Bob Viking is online now  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 18:24
  #8719 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,725
Postal votes enable a whole section of the population who would otherwise be excluded to vote. The cost of proving and managing a limited postal voting system would be huge.

Where one polling station serves two villages I have seen a marked difference in proportions voting. As polling is infrequent people don't know if they don't have a local polling station.

Postal voting has robust checks: application, date of birth, signature and then all rechecked when the constituent votes. In contrast you turn up at the polling station, say where you live and who you are, no checks.

Having just been in a system last week where ID was rigorously checked. 5% needed additional checks. Change of name, change of appearance such as hair style, facial hair, lack of acceptable ID.

Where it was trialled for the election last month there were problems.

Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 19:07
  #8720 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,742
Covered in the Times a couple of days ago.....

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/v...ough-bcpmdm8zj

Vote-rigger’s role casts doubt over Labour win in Peterborough

A notorious vote-rigger jailed for forging postal votes played a far greater role in Labour’s narrow by-election victory in Peterborough this month than the party has admitted.

Tariq Mahmood, 51, a numberplate salesman and former taxi company owner who received a 15-month sentence for his part in a “systematic campaign of electoral fraud” in 2008, had denied involvement in the campaign to elect Lisa Forbes 10 days ago. He said he had met Jeremy Corbyn briefly on the campaign trail but had not known in advance that the Labour leader would visit. Labour said Mahmood, who also manages property, did “not play any role in its campaign”.

However, a Sunday Times investigation reveals that Mahmood:

● Campaigned extensively with Forbes and at least five MPs in Central Ward, where, a court heard, he had once been “the spider at the centre of the web” of a massive campaign to “hijack” ballot papers and forge postal votes

● Accompanied Corbyn during his tour of the ward’s mosques, community centres and high street days before the vote

● Spent election day at the entrance to a local polling station.

In social media posts, Labour activists described Mahmood as “the mastermind”, “a tireless Labour comrade” and “at the heart of Labour Peterborough”. The businessman, who was expelled from the party in 2008, has spoken of his continued activism in Labour.....

Labour won the by-election by just 683 votes out of an overall turnout of 33,920. About 28% of votes (9,498) were postal votes, higher than the 2017 general election figure of 24% and the national average of 21.6%. The number of rejected postal ballots rose from 379 to 400. The Central Ward in which Mahmood campaigned had the greatest proportion of postal votes issued in the constituency. There are no figures on how many were returned or for which party.

Mahmood spent the day of the contest, June 6, outside Gladstone Park Community Centre, a polling station that serves North Ward.

At first he insisted he had visited to help his wheelchair-bound mother vote. Asked how long he had been there, he said: “I don’t know, I can’t confirm that, I’ve got so much going on in life at the moment.” Later, he said he had been in the area “throughout” the day, but only because he ran nearby flats and his son was a teacher at a local school. He denied being a teller — someone who reports to Labour on who has yet to vote, and encourages residents to do so. He added: “I had other family members, which I was just bringing them there.”

Mahmood spent the early hours of June 7 at the election count, where he posted pictures of ballot papers and turnout figures an hour before they were made public, and later celebrated with his close friend, Shaz Nawaz, head of the Labour group of Peterborough council. Last week Nawaz said on Facebook: “Tariq is not a member of Labour — he, therefore, was not part of the campaign.”

In the run-up to the poll, however, the pair campaigned together repeatedly. Forbes also campaigned with Mahmood and reacted with “hearts” to Facebook pictures of the two together. Mahmood appears with the candidate and Corbyn in a Labour Party video that has amassed 132,000 views. He also appeared with Corbyn on a further occasion five days before the vote.

Last week police confirmed they were investigating five allegations of fraud at the by-election, including a claim that two men boasted that they had “burnt” more than 1,000 votes for Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party, which came second in the Leave-voting city. However, the council has sought to play down racist claims about Muslim vote rigging, including the allegation that “thousands were bussed in and paid £10 to vote for the Labour candidate”.......

Labour has dismissed the allegations and said Mahmood had nothing to do with the campaign......

ORAC is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.