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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 2nd Dec 2018, 09:27
  #821 (permalink)  
 
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They do seem to find a regular supply of ex Remainers who express the wish to "just get on with it". This to me seems quite bizarre as those who say it usually pretty much conform to my idea of a Leaver i.e. Old, male, inarticulate/uneducated.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 09:59
  #822 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
usually pretty much conform to my idea of a Leaver i.e. Old, male, inarticulate/uneducated.
Why do so many remainers regard themselves as being better educated?
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 10:07
  #823 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
Why do so many remainers regard themselves as being better educated?
Possibly because they are? (On average, that is, so, of course, there will be some ignorant remainers and even some educated leavers, though you might have to include Eton.) There's plenty of data out there showing this.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 10:46
  #824 (permalink)  
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It’s a bell curve - and there are more than a few bell ends around on both sides, so to speak.

I do have to add the caveat, pointing to the example of the mass support within academia both historically, and at present, for systems such as Marxism and people such as Jeremy Corbyn, that education does not equate to either wisdom or common sense. Merely opportunity, indoctrination and group think.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 10:49
  #825 (permalink)  
 
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I can't believe that 52% of those that voted in the referendum are old, male, inarticulate or uneducated.
It is curious that those who chose to remain seem to consider that they are on some sort of high ground and that their superiority negates the referendum result. In particular I find the calls for a second referendum rather odd, why should anyone believe that those who opted to leave have changed their minds.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 10:57
  #826 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by paulc View Post
Gertie i expect the bbc are not looking very hard or in the right places to find brexit supporters, after all there are 17.4 million of them.
Here is the largest pro-#brexit demo of recent times. Doesn't quite compare to the 700,000+ who turned out for the pro-remain demo, does it.

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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 12:02
  #827 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Here is the largest pro-#brexit demo of recent times. Doesn't quite compare to the 700,000+ who turned out for the pro-remain demo, does it.

Using the counting method used by remainers, there are 4,000 on that bridge.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 12:04
  #828 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Using the counting method used by remainers, there are 4,000 on that bridge.
Still a little way short of 700,000
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 12:24
  #829 (permalink)  
 
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SO much outdated knowledge being displayed here!

G0ULI,
EADS became Airbus in 2014 and have not existed as such since.The Galileo Ground control centre located at Swanwick is already being moved to Spain.

The NIP,
Airbus have said that without free movement and frictionless trade they will be off, we are already seeing A350 investment commitments that were destined for the UK going to Spain and this will only continue. And no. not a single one of the UK satellite design, engineering and manufacturing companies are British, they are mainly Airbus owned. You also do not seem to realise how the EU works or the consequences of leaving it. Sallyann2134 has neatly described what happens when we leave. We leave it all behind.

KelvinD,
The Surrey University satellite operation was spun off into a separate independent company, Surrey Satellite Technology, which was bought by and is now 100% owned by Airbus.

BAengineer,

The IP was developed in the UK at Airbus Space and Defence and SSTL and so will be owned by those two companies, whom are both Airbus owned which is an EU company...

This is all a small scale example of the disaster that will hit the UK after we leave the EU, especially if with no deal. Huge swathes of our industry will just be gone. WTO is threatened by Trump, those who the Brexiteers fondly think will want to trade with us are in fact our competitors, and they will all be doing or have done a deal with the EU, why on earth would they give a better deal to us than they did to the world's largest single trading block. The enormous contradiction and disaster that is Brexit.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 12:41
  #830 (permalink)  
 
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D'you know what, a couple of years ago there was just me and a couple of others on Jet Blast who weren't entirely keen on #brexit. Now that the tide is turning even here ...
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 12:45
  #831 (permalink)  
 
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I can accept that Brexiteers will stretch and distort the truth in order to try and persuade others.

What is difficult to understand is that they actually believe this rubbish themselves.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 12:53
  #832 (permalink)  
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Pr00ne,

As an initial point, the ownership of the companies is, in the main irrelevant. Why? Because under the terms of the original GNSS agreement the EU, as a body, has ownership of the IP for all development, tangible and intangible for the Galileo programme.

However, the security modules are produced in the UK and are governed under UK security regulations and the technology, and hence production, cannot be moved outside the UK or divulged to other manufacturers or nations without UK government export authority.

Its the the same position that BAe is in with the companies they bought in the USA which are producing USA only equipment for the US forces - the work is done behind Chinese firewalls through which the UK divisions have no access.

The EU currently has access under the terms of programme, once the UK leaves that agreement will be void and at the discretion of the Secretary of State and the UK Space Agency.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...dance_007_.pdf

The Public Regulated Service (Galileo) Regulations 2018

The Public Regulated Service (Galileo) Regulations 2018 are the legal basis for the regulation of activities in relation to the use or manufacture of PRS technology in the UK. The Regulation defines that the use of the PRS, PRS products or PRS equipment developed or manufactured is prohibited without a licence issued by the UK Space Agency.
The Regulations confer licensing and other powers on the Secretary of State who carries these powers out through the UK Space Agency. The UK Space Agency is designated as the Competent Authority for the purposes of managing and supervising access to and use of the PRS. The legislation seeks to ensure compliance with the UK’s obligations as set out under EU Decision 1104/2011/EU of the European Parliament on the rules for access to the PRS.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 13:03
  #833 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne;

[b
The NIP,[/b]
Airbus have said that without free movement and frictionless trade they will be off, we are already seeing A350 investment commitments that were destined for the UK going to Spain and this will only continue. And no. not a single one of the UK satellite design, engineering and manufacturing companies are British, they are mainly Airbus owned. You also do not seem to realise how the EU works or the consequences of leaving it. Sallyann2134 has neatly described what happens when we leave. We leave it all behind.
.
Correctly. I did not know what happens with Airbus when we leave. That is why I ask a question.
I hardly think that Sallyann is the authority on Airbus but will apologise if she/he is.

ORAC's post after yours says different. Who is right?
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 13:05
  #834 (permalink)  
 
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There has to be some humour in this somewhere ?
Is this so serious the comedians are scared to touch the subject ?
What could funnier than plodding imperial powers arguing again over sovereignty in a world where sovereignty is ignored by multi-national corporations ?
While those who seek power are ignored by those who use it ?
Large multinational corps will get around any border they want and any government regulations . Especially the regs they write
​​​​​​
The only good joke I have seen was the spice girl song "tell EU want I want "
Other than that crickets ,
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 13:14
  #835 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Pr00ne,

As an initial point, the ownership of the companies is, in the main irrelevant. Why? Because under the terms of the original GNSS agreement the EU, as a body, has ownership of the IP for all development, tangible and intangible for the Galileo programme.

However, the security modules are produced in the UK and are governed under UK security regulations and the technology, and hence production, cannot be moved outside the UK or divulged to other manufacturers or nations without UK government export authority.
Your second sentence collides with the first. Since the IP is owned by the EU, they are free to reproduce any parts that the UK are unwilling or unable to supply.

And in any case, since Galileo is almost complete now it is rather late for the UK to place an embargo. Most of the components have already been installed or are in stock as spares, so this will not be an immediate problem.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 13:14
  #836 (permalink)  
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Fitlker,

You have obviously never got involved in the complexity of such things as ITAR regulations - and the penalties involved.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 13:20
  #837 (permalink)  
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Sallyanne,

No, BAe owns the IP for technology their US companies have developed. But if the they tried to produce it outside the USA or export outside the USA outside ITAR regulations and DoD/State Department authority those responsible would go to jail for a very long time.

Same applies. The companies in the UK may be Airbus owned, but any export of product or IP outside the UK without a UK licence would be a criminal offence.

However, I doubt the Secretary of State would refuse permission to export the product - the production is another matter.

Assuming the rules are the same as for ITAR, the products are exported with an end user certificate which states the specific use and rules of disposal, and also return if the licence is subsequently revoked.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 15:20
  #838 (permalink)  
 
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This still isn't making sense.

Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
No, BAe owns the IP for technology their US companies have developed. But if the they tried to produce it outside the USA or export outside the USA outside ITAR regulations and DoD/State Department authority those responsible would go to jail for a very long time.

But they are already exported outside the USA - to the EU where final assembly takes place.

Same applies. The companies in the UK may be Airbus owned, but any export of product or IP outside the UK without a UK licence would be a criminal offence.
However, I doubt the Secretary of State would refuse permission to export the product - the production is another matter.
As above, and in any case as I said previously it's a bit late to apply an effective embargo when the system is almost complete.
Galileo system status

Assuming the rules are the same as for ITAR, the products are exported with an end user certificate which states the specific use and rules of disposal, and also return if the licence is subsequently revoked.
They would expect return of components from orbiting satellites? That would be fun to watch.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 15:37
  #839 (permalink)  
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I think the government would accept being placed in a parking orbit as an effective method of disposal......

Yes, they are currently exported, and I said I do not see any circumstances where the UK government would refuse a licence. Giving permission for the fabrication and machine code to be exported is a different matter.

The initial system is in place, replacement satellites will be required throughout the life of the system.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 15:45
  #840 (permalink)  
 
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So you agree there is no danger of Galileo being immediately impacted by Brexit.
The future of course is an unknown country.
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