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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 21st May 2019, 10:13
  #8081 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Turkey has got a chip on it's political shoulder since it hates criticism of how Erdogan is running the country, and particularly how he runs roughshod over Turkey's alleged democracy.

If Turkey had taken a different path politically, the the customs agreement between Turkey and the EU would surely have broadened, but as it is the EU, and not just the EU are distancing themselves from the Erdogan regime.* Despite that Turkey is the source of many of the vehicle parts that are used by the European car industry, and this has only happened becaause of the trade agreements that are in place with the EU.

It is disingenuous of Politico to compare the limited customs union between Turkey and the EU, with that which (currently) exists for the UK within the EU customs union. The two are quite different. Then Politico is in the business of peddling anti EU nonsense - that's why people of that mindset read it.
Why do you think the UK agreed to a EU trade deal with Japan that will lead eventually to no tariffs on cars manufactured and imported from Japan? Just curious.
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Old 21st May 2019, 11:34
  #8082 (permalink)  
 
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It is clear that the politicians in the UK and the EU live in a completely different universe to the electorate who put them in power. The British electorate voted to leave the EU on the promise that the UK would simply leave, no deals, no compromise. The whole debacle was initiated because the EU would not accede to UK demands for compromise over certain aspects of our relationship.

The Eurovision song contest result was a bellweather indication of what members of the public in the EU felt about our relationship, the UK received virtually no support and ended up in last place. The professional jurors had us placed midway in the table. The UK song did not deserve to be in last place in in an era of warmer relationships would have been in the top ten finalists.

What this single and unofficial poll suggests is that the general population across the EU are happy to see the UK depart, the sooner the better. We certainly know and will have it confirmed on Thursday, that the UK should be leaving the EU without a deal.

The Brexit Party may be a single issue party, but that single issue has bogged down domestic and international politics for three years and this situation cannot continue. I shall be voting for the Brexit Party on Thursday and subsequently support whichever politician or political party that promises to extract the UK from the EU without a deal, as soon as possible. That is the most important issue facing the UK right now. How we subsequently deal with and sanction lying politicians may become a hot political topic after Brexit. I expect history will deal harshly with Theresa May since it has become apparent that her ambition all along was to sabotage Brexit. Leopards do not change their spots and she was never in favour of Brexit from the start.

For better or worse, the Brexit Party will become the political force to be reckoned with through the EU and next General Election.
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Old 21st May 2019, 12:01
  #8083 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
Why do you think the UK agreed to a EU trade deal with Japan that will lead eventually to no tariffs on cars manufactured and imported from Japan? Just curious.
I'm struggling to understand how the two are connected to be absolutely honest.

However, as a general rule, unless you're Donald Trump, free trade deals are generally looked upon as a good thing, as they generally increase trade between nations and trading blocks. That Japan can eventually have duty free access to EU markets for their cars also means they can ship cars manufactured in the EU to Japan duty free - these things do tend to be reciprocal you know. More broadly the EU / Japan trade deal should lead to increased trade in all manufactured goods - both ways, which is great for EU manufacturing. Sadly, when we're out of the EU we will have no such agreement, and Japan will be able to drive a much harder bargain with the UK than they could ever have hoped to achieve with the EU as the latter has much more clout than the UK.
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Old 21st May 2019, 14:24
  #8084 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I'm struggling to understand how the two are connected to be absolutely honest.

However, as a general rule, unless you're Donald Trump, free trade deals are generally looked upon as a good thing, as they generally increase trade between nations and trading blocks. That Japan can eventually have duty free access to EU markets for their cars also means they can ship cars manufactured in the EU to Japan duty free - these things do tend to be reciprocal you know. More broadly the EU / Japan trade deal should lead to increased trade in all manufactured goods - both ways, which is great for EU manufacturing. Sadly, when we're out of the EU we will have no such agreement, and Japan will be able to drive a much harder bargain with the UK than they could ever have hoped to achieve with the EU as the latter has much more clout than the UK.
It is tempting to think that the Japan/EU deal, at least in part, was intended by the latter to isolate the UK as much out of spite as for mercantile reasons. However, the Japanese do not carry the Brexit baggage and ill feeling attached to it (although they were put up to spouting Remain opinions by Brussels), so I imagine that having regard to the current trade imbalance of 2:1 in favour of Japan, they will be keen to maintain their access to what is a substantial export market and agree a deal with us on terms similar to those established with other favoured nations.
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Old 21st May 2019, 14:28
  #8085 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I'm struggling to understand how the two are connected to be absolutely honest.

However, as a general rule, unless you're Donald Trump, free trade deals are generally looked upon as a good thing, as they generally increase trade between nations and trading blocks. That Japan can eventually have duty free access to EU markets for their cars also means they can ship cars manufactured in the EU to Japan duty free - these things do tend to be reciprocal you know. More broadly the EU / Japan trade deal should lead to increased trade in all manufactured goods - both ways, which is great for EU manufacturing. Sadly, when we're out of the EU we will have no such agreement, and Japan will be able to drive a much harder bargain with the UK than they could ever have hoped to achieve with the EU as the latter has much more clout than the UK.
I don't see anything in the EU/Japan trade deal that will allow EU manufactured cars to be imported tariff free into Japan.

Last edited by yellowtriumph; 21st May 2019 at 14:40.
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Old 21st May 2019, 15:00
  #8086 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
I don't see anything in the EU/Japan trade deal that will allow EU manufactured cars to be imported tariff free into Japan.
I haven't read it, I suspect neither have you. We, like most people rely on the media. Generally speaking tariffs are reciprocal, so if we (the EU) are eventually going to allow Japanese manufactured cars in free of duties, then it would be rather odd for our (the EU's) negotiators not to have got a reciprocal agreement, or got something else of at least equal value out of the Nips (can we say Nips these days?).
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Old 21st May 2019, 15:09
  #8087 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
The Eurovision song contest result was a bellweather indication of what members of the public in the EU felt about our relationship, the UK received virtually no support and ended up in last place. The professional jurors had us placed midway in the table. The UK song did not deserve to be in last place in in an era of warmer relationships would have been in the top ten finalists.

What this single and unofficial poll suggests is that the general population across the EU are happy to see the UK depart, the sooner the better. We certainly know and will have it confirmed on Thursday, that the UK should be leaving the EU without a deal.


Really, Gouli?

The Eurovision Song Contest has never been more than a frivolous indulgence and in recent years has increasingly become a total non sequitur. A political bellwether it most certainly is not. I travel widely on the Continent and whilst many of those I meet sometimes express a frustration with the UK and the hopelessly inept manner in which Brexit is being conducted, they acknowledge that Brussels is not altogether blameless in the creation of this fiasco. I have detected a quiet admiration (and perhaps some jealousy) for our having the temerity to thwart the ambitions of this supra-national institution which does not command universal popularity within its membership. In a political sense, we have been little more than a pain in the arse of the EU since we have never embraced the Franco/German duopoly with any enthusiasm. They have been obliged to suffer our presence in order to retain our very substantial contributions to their gravy train. The people, on the other hand, I have found to be perfectly reasonable - it is a mistake to conflate their views with those of the Brussels mandarins.

The Channel Four documentary, Brexit Behind Closed Doors - which should be made required viewing - explains things superbly well. I'm just astonished that it was broadcast by an arm of the BBC, since the programme's revelations are contrary to the propaganda spouted by this once august body.
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Old 21st May 2019, 15:15
  #8088 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I haven't read it, I suspect neither have you. We, like most people rely on the media. Generally speaking tariffs are reciprocal, so if we (the EU) are eventually going to allow Japanese manufactured cars in free of duties, then it would be rather odd for our (the EU's) negotiators not to have got a reciprocal agreement, or got something else of at least equal value out of the Nips (can we say Nips these days?).
Here is one official EU document on the agreement.

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/doc...doc_157115.pdf

I have not read it, life is too short. I do note one comment near the beginning:

"No EU sector is foreseen to experience noticeable losses, including the motor vehicle sector which is expected to see its exports to Japan increase thanks to the reductions in non-tariff measures achieved by the agreement."

Non-tariff measures? Curious that the vehicle sector is specifically mentioned, but true I'm sure.

I do not think it would be considered 'PC' to refer to the Japanese as 'Nips' these days. I do muse to myself on occasion what is the significance of calling the national air carrier 'All Nippon' Airways, what if it had been 'Nearly but not all Nippon' Airways or 'Partial Nippon' Airways. Funny what goes through your mind in a departure lounge!

Bit of digression so do not feel the need to respond unless you want to.
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Old 21st May 2019, 15:36
  #8089 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post

"No EU sector is foreseen to experience noticeable losses, including the motor vehicle sector which is expected to see its exports to Japan increase thanks to the reductions in non-tariff measures achieved by the agreement."
I can hardly see the Japanese wanting to import Yaris, Avensis and Qashqui models back to Japan that have been built in Europe.
Good news for BMW, Audi, VW, Citreon, Renault and Peugeot.
Probably not so good news for the UK.
But Japans car rules are rather unusual and only a few models will really appeal.

Last edited by Filler Dent; 21st May 2019 at 16:31.
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Old 21st May 2019, 15:37
  #8090 (permalink)  
 
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So the Eurovision song contest result is an international judgement on Britain.
If your other pronouncements are as accurate as that one, GOULI ​​​​​​, I think we can save a lot of time reading them.

But if it were true, we will be having a hard job patching up relationships and making good trade deals after Brexit. Perhaps we should stay in the EU after all?
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Old 21st May 2019, 16:41
  #8091 (permalink)  
 
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So it looks like Treeza is true to form and breaking another promise.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...ment_134904182

Back her deal and get another referendum.
If this agony hasn't gone on long enough.
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Old 21st May 2019, 17:55
  #8092 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
<snip>

The Eurovision song contest result was a bellweather indication of what members of the public in the EU felt about our relationship, the UK received virtually no support and ended up in last place. The professional jurors had us placed midway in the table. The UK song did not deserve to be in last place in in an era of warmer relationships would have been in the top ten finalists.

<snip>
Just to highlight the stupidity (sorry) of your post: The jurys had the UK song on the third last place, not in the middle of the table. Are you making stuff up as you go along or are you living in a parallel universe?
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Old 21st May 2019, 18:04
  #8093 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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Old 21st May 2019, 18:13
  #8094 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Filler Dent View Post
So it looks like Treeza is true to form and breaking another promise.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...ment_134904182

Back her deal and get another referendum.
If this agony hasn't gone on long enough.
We now definitely have a PM who has definitely lost the plot and is not actually listening to anyone, I also think May and most of the others in Westminster must be related to the fruit fly as they do appear to have as short an attention span as they have, apparently, have they forgotten those important votes the MPs had when they took back control, as the vote for a second referendum lost by 334-85, cannot see that changing to get it through next time either. I also think they have forgotten that the issuing of Article 50 was voted for by a majority, maybe they did not understand the implication of Article 50, or more than likely did not bother to read it.

As for all the petition responses, and there has been many, all which had the following response:

The Government remains clear that we will respect the result of the 2016 referendum, and we therefore will not hold a second referendum.
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Old 21st May 2019, 18:49
  #8095 (permalink)  
 
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Here is a wish. If only the mods would revive our old Brexit thread and let PACE back in.

PACE if you are still with us knock once.
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Old 21st May 2019, 19:06
  #8096 (permalink)  
 
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I am a leaver. Just now I watched Mrs May's latest speech. Whilst I thought its content was 'more of the same' and would probably change nothing, what finally struck me was that there was no passion in her delivery: as ever, eyes constantly (almost) head down, referring to her written words. I accept that all Pollies read from their script, but those that have a belief in their words do so with more 'guts'. She delivers like a repetitive disc.
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Old 21st May 2019, 20:38
  #8097 (permalink)  
 
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Well to be honest she is a lame duck that has lost it's quack, and her legacy will reflect that she was one of the worst PM's this country has ever had, she took on the role accepting it was always going to be a hard task to satisfy everyone and has ended up in farce and humiliation whilst destroying her party and satisfying no one.

Why she doesn't simply go is beyond me, her plans have come to nought and no amount of force feeding the same proverbial cr*p to parliament is ever going to get anywhere.
Talking to Corbyn was a disaster and simply played into his hands, he was never wanting to make anything work, his agenda has been to help the Conservative party along the road of self destruction whilst furthering his own agenda of self promotion and seeking power...... All to the detriment of this Country, the sad part is he does not secretly want to remain as his plans cannot ever come to fruition whilst the UK remains Part of the EU.

Oh yes and I too voted leave and have been let down by the current occupants at Westminster, so as a life long conservative voter I say, roll on Nigel.

Last edited by NutLoose; 21st May 2019 at 20:51.
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Old 21st May 2019, 20:56
  #8098 (permalink)  
 
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Does anyone know of a good hypnotist that will treat all of us from the prolonged nausea the very word 'Brexit' has been causing?
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Old 21st May 2019, 21:08
  #8099 (permalink)  
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48359132

Brexit: Has PM's 'new deal' made things worse?


Laura KuenssbergPolitical editor@bbclaurak

Did the prime minister just make it worse? It hardly seems that would have been possible.

.......
But the diplomatic way of describing the situation tonight? Compromising when no one else is interested in consensus is impossible.

The more brutal political interpretation - Theresa May's mishandling of this whole situation has, over many, many months, pulled her deeper and deeper down into a quagmire of her own creation.

An attempt at this stage to ask others for understanding to help her escape is just too late - far, far too late. Now some Conservative minds are turning to whether she can stay on to have this vote at all........
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Old 21st May 2019, 21:16
  #8100 (permalink)  
 
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Lesson 101..... How not to conduct an interview on TV

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wal...g-tv-interview



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