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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 18th May 2019, 12:48
  #8041 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Itís funny isnít it. Despite what everyone says and no matter how much they try to make themselves about to be a paragon of virtue, everyone votes for selfish reasons in the end.

Maybe thats why everyone just cannot accept opposing viewpoints.

BV
How very true. Certain people on here will purely vote because it gives them or their families more social benefits.
But won't say as much, as they like to make out it is for the benefit of the whole country.
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Old 18th May 2019, 12:56
  #8042 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post


How very true. Certain people on here will purely vote because it gives them or their families more social benefits.
But won't say as much, as they like to make out it is for the benefit of the whole country.
That's quite a interesting analysis even more so as your own life and work is state funded. What's the relevance of social benefits therefore and in what context do you refer to benefits ?
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Old 18th May 2019, 12:58
  #8043 (permalink)  
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CJ "Might well have been some incapacitated, otherwise engaged, whatever, but not in numbers which would materially affect the result. So, my figures stand and it IS a case of a minority of UK citizens attempting to force those who actively wish for, or accept, the status quo, into leaving the EU against their will"

One can add the ignorant wholly unaware of the referendum. Strange as it may seem, some do not watch the news, read newspapers, have any political opinion or even have been aware of the vote.

Then there are many unaware of the proxy system or postal votes. A significant number cannot access a polling station. At the council election our polling station star covered a small village with about 120 voters; some had postal votes; only 3 registered voters reached the polling station. At previous elections there was a similar pattern. Proportionally more of those living in the same village actually voted than those further out.
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Old 18th May 2019, 13:31
  #8044 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
EM, one has to be careful with making that assertion, it does not necessarily mean that everyone who votes for LD, Change, Green and Labour are remain voters, some/a lot of leave voters may vote for those parties as they don't like the Brexit party and are totally disillusioned about the Conservatives who they might normally vote for.

Conversely, not every remain voter will necessarily vote for those remain parties either.
I think that you are virtually totally wrong on this. Any Leaver voting for those parties would have to be so devoid of political savvy that they would not be capable of finding their way to the polling station. No, this is a referendum by proxy. Adding Brexit +UKIP + 75% of the Tory vote is going to give us the Leave proportion on Thursday.
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Old 18th May 2019, 13:48
  #8045 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Is there really any difference between extreme left and extreme right? They have always shown in practice to be equally controlling and destructive.

I visualise politics not as a straight line between two points but a loop, where left and right meet together round the back.
My late father, and father in law were polls apart politically; so far in fact that over a beer they could agree on almost everything!!
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Old 18th May 2019, 15:35
  #8046 (permalink)  
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The following people may be found in the picture below.

The historical ignoramuses.
People with limited grasp of English grammar.
The Scots.
People who can't draw.
Flag waving EU supporters.
The really quite young.
People who confuse racism with patriotism.
The bearded.
Redheads.

All these people were at an anti Brexit Party protest in Edinburgh yesterday where the sale of milkshakes was stopped at the request of the police lest they be hurled at the peacefully speaking Nigel Farage.
All good reasons to vote for the Brexit Party next week as if, of course, as if any rational Brit needed anything more than his inherent and natural good natured common sense.



Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 18th May 2019 at 16:19.
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Old 18th May 2019, 16:45
  #8047 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
The following people may be found in the picture below.

The historical ignoramuses.
People with limited grasp of English grammar.
The Scots.
People who can't draw.
Flag waving EU supporters.
The really quite young.
People who confuse racism with patriotism.
The bearded.
Redheads.

All these people were at an anti Brexit Party protest in Edinburgh yesterday where the sale of milkshakes was stopped at the request of the police lest they be hurled at the peacefully speaking Nigel Farage.
All good reasons to vote for the Brexit Party next week as if, of course, as if any rational Brit needed anything more than his inherent and natural good natured common sense.


That really is a funny picture and sums up hard core Remainers well:
The beardy, middle aged lifelong LibDem supporter, who sees this as an opportunity to revive a near dead party
Student Union activists looking for an argument, but not sure what about (though WW2 seems as good a place to start as any)
A few diehard Nats that havent worked out the very basic flaw in Sturgeons opposing positions, i.e. she wants to leave one union (that gives her people great benefits) yet remain part of a different union (that gives them not a lot at all)
Some very bored housewives and single men that think leaving the EU will affect their ability to meet handsome, or cheap, future partners


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Old 18th May 2019, 18:17
  #8048 (permalink)  
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Old 18th May 2019, 21:32
  #8049 (permalink)  
 
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Still supports my hypothesis of Brexit+UKIP+ 75% Tory = 45%

LD + Green + Change + 75% Labour. The 7% other will be SNP + Minor Irish Parties + Plaid, so once again 75%
​​​​​​​ Remain= 52%
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Old 18th May 2019, 21:52
  #8050 (permalink)  
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Old 18th May 2019, 22:02
  #8051 (permalink)  
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Please forgive me for saying so but if the same logic were applied to those 52% as was previously applied to the 52% by the 48% then the vote of the 52% may be utterly ignored being nothing other than the demented selection of a bunch of isosceles, bigoted, uneducated country bumpkins.

In other words, if it never mattered how many originally voted to leave then why on earth should it matter now how many voted to remain and ain't that a parliamentary and political paradox?

Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 18th May 2019 at 22:19.
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Old 18th May 2019, 22:02
  #8052 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
I was going to say something very similar. All these polls of polls prove to me is that voting intent regards Brexit has changed very little in the last 3 years. Certainly nothing near a magnitude of change that makes it politically or morally acceptable to put us all through another referendum, when we haven't yet acted on the last one!
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Old 19th May 2019, 09:43
  #8053 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Still supports my hypothesis of Brexit+UKIP+ 75% Tory = 45%

LD + Green + Change + 75% Labour. The 7% other will be SNP + Minor Irish Parties + Plaid, so once again 75%
​​​​​​​ Remain= 52%
EM: With regard your figures a more accurate summation using your logic could be considered as being:

Brexit + UKIP + 75% Tory + 25% Labour + 25% other = 51%

LD + Green + Change + 75% Labour + 25% Conservative + 75% other ​​= 49%
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Old 19th May 2019, 16:28
  #8054 (permalink)  
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Forget Boris as next PM, if the polls keep moving at this rate it will be Farage......

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Old 19th May 2019, 17:31
  #8055 (permalink)  
 
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If a GE returned figures like that the vagaries of FPTP would make it an absolute lottery. The only rider I would add is that Brexit would most likely do significantly worse that it's percentage figure might suggest simply because they have no established seats to defend. They would fail to benefit from any kind of tactical vote. The big winners there would likely be the Lib Dems with Labour, and possibly some Tory Remainers being prepared to support them against the other big two party where the seat was held by that party.

I think that we may well be likely to on the brink of an LD breakthrough this week. We were out to dinner last night with friends who always vote Tory. Talked turned to the imminent elections and all four agreed that our votes will be heading LD wards.
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Old 19th May 2019, 18:09
  #8056 (permalink)  
 
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Could the Lib Dems actually win the next GE, it would have to be one heck of a remain voters change of allegiance to achieve that, or the usual non-voters decided to actually turn up and vote for them, I doubt it would be a substantial win even if it was feasible, one would assume that it would be on a revoke Article 50 manifesto.

How would they get anything passed by the rest of the crowd in Westminster, if they have major opposition from the rest of Westminster it would mean the Brexit position would be in exactly the same as it is now, nowhere.
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Old 19th May 2019, 18:33
  #8057 (permalink)  
 
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The danger for the big parties is the "Bandwagon Effect". We saw it in 2010 with Cleggmania and the LD 's came awfully close to a major breakthrough. It's happening with Farage right now, but unfortunately for him it's come in an election where the outcome isn't really important in terms of their ability to actually do anything other than go to Brussels and stamp their feet.
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Old 19th May 2019, 18:35
  #8058 (permalink)  
 
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You think there is going to be a general election this side of the latest EU deadline?
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Old 19th May 2019, 18:44
  #8059 (permalink)  
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Before we get too excited on the prediction, factor in SNP and PC and DUP is variable too.
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Old 19th May 2019, 18:45
  #8060 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
You think there is going to be a general election this side of the latest EU deadline?
Which deadline ? if you mean the current one, highly unlikely, if you mean before any of the future deadlines then I don't know. I can still see Brexit being kicked down the road until there is a GE, even to when the next one is due in 2022..

The EU will be quite amenable to keep allowing extensions as they will continue to get the UK payments, so they will be happy with the status quo, especially as we are told that Brexit is not affecting them, only the UK.
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