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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 17th Apr 2019, 08:13
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Old 17th Apr 2019, 09:18
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Verhofstadt likes the sound of his own voice, rather like Farage, and again rather like our Nige believes he carries more weight than he probably does. The Main players from the EU side are Juncker and Tusk, and it is they I'm inclined to listen to, rather then the petulant tones of Verhofstadt.
I'm inclinded to agree, but I think Mr Verhofstadt was absolutely on the money with his comments about the HoC taking a break immediately an agreement was forged by Tusk et.al. for a further extension to Brexit..

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...ofstadt-blasts





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Old 17th Apr 2019, 09:46
  #7443 (permalink)  
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Wiggy, what? Delay Easter?
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Old 17th Apr 2019, 09:47
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
I'm inclinded to agree, but I think Mr Verhofstadt was absolutely on the money with his comments about the HoC taking a break immediately an agreement was forged by Tusk et.al. for a further extension to Brexit..

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...ofstadt-blasts
No, you can't argue with that. Most important time for our national future for several generations and the whole lot of them b....r off on holiday. If this was a corporate crisis the shareholders would be going barmy. As it is the next "AGM" for us shareholders is not scheduled for another 3 years, and to be honest I'm struggling to work out which of these bungling incompetents is least likely to thoroughly screw up the country.
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Old 17th Apr 2019, 11:39
  #7445 (permalink)  
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Lord Sugar renounce peerage "You're fired!"fi r

Mind you, peers may become PM, they just don't sit in the commons. Given the present commons, why would they want to?
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Old 18th Apr 2019, 16:43
  #7446 (permalink)  
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Another one from Conservative Home
    Published: April 18, 2019

    283 comments

    Ed Hall: Enough is enough. I cannot bring myself to vote Conservative this May.

    By Ed Hall

    Last updated: April 18, 2019 at 7:42 am
    Management consultant Ed Hall is a former award-winning BBC broadcaster and political campaigner, and long-time Conservative activist.

    I am going to have to go on a brief electoral holiday as a Tory voter, as I simply cannot see how in all good conscience I can put a cross in the Conservative box this May.

    This isnít an easy decision. Since being one of just a couple of Tory-supporting pupils at a very pro-CND school in the 1980s,I have supported the Conservatives in every way I could. As a young man, I worked for members of both Houses of Parliament, Iíve sat on committees in two constituencies, I have been part of selection committees for MPs and councillors, including such different political voices as Michael Portillo and Charles Tannock MEP.

    My first election campaigning was against Kate Hoey in the 1989 Vauxhall by-election, and my most recent activity was working hard on the ground to see the successful election of the excellent Jamie Greene MSP in 2016: nearly three decades of activism.

    I have spent my hours outside Tube stations with leaflets, I have knocked up doors in constituencies up and down the country, I canvassed hard in North London estates for Boris Johnson for his second term as Mayor, just as I wore out shoe leather for Richard Benyon in Newbury in 2005. In 2015, I spent hours in a grubby constituency office making call after call to try and elect Simon Marcus to replace Glenda Jackson in Hampstead and Kilburn: we came within a thousand votes.

    Iíve written publicly and privately on policy matters, contributed where I can to Conservative thinking, and was the runner up to be our parliamentary candidate in both Exeter and Hammersmith in 2015.

    Iíve donated thousands of pounds to the party, and I have (more than once) been the fool who overpays for Thatcher memorabilia at our auctions and dinners. When people say, ĎHeís a Tory!í, they mean me.

    Of course, I donít always agree with many of our MPs on lots of things, and I was an activist who strongly supported the libertarian and common-sense adoption of gay marriage as a sound Conservative policy. I donít agree with my friend Charles Tannock on Europe, and I donít agree with Peter Bone on equality and discrimination. Being a Conservative has always meant being part of a broad church, where we argue and debate and agree a common platform; Iíve accepted that, and I think my moderate, liberal, libertarian wing has won more battles than itís lost over the years.

    And so why do I need a break? Itís obvious really, but I think the party has lost control of itself, and is wrapped up in a bizarre Emperorís New Clothes fantasy that anyone anywhere is taking it seriously. We have to stop this insanity, and we have to stop now. Since the catastrophic 2017 election led by a tiny group of Number 10 advisors who listened to nobody, we have changed from being the party of common sense and sound judgement, to a parliament of fools, led by a Prime Minister who is as sensitive to outside advice and opinion now as she was when she introduced the Dementia Tax in our 2017 manifesto. Am I the only person who cringes when she quotes that document as gospel in the Brexit debate, as I recall it was the same manifesto that persuaded a million Conservative voters to desert us or stay at home?

    James Cleverly, whom I rate very highly, tweeting with pride and loyalty about his appointment to the Department for the Exiting the European Union, is probably the piece of tragi-comedy that pushes me off the edge. Has he lost his mind? His very job title is dotty 1984 Newspeak: he is the emergency last-gasp choice to enter revolving door of the Department for Not Exiting the European Union. A more failed, farcical joke department you would be pushed to make up: it doesnít even have a proper office building. Itís a pretend department with a mish-mash of officials borrowed from elsewhere, using borrowed desks and borrowed meeting rooms all over Whitehall. Like the whole Brexit process, the department is a sham, with no executive powers, no authoritative voice, and not even a direct route to the so-called talks.

    In 2016 we voted to leave the EU. I was on the fence for a while during the referendum campaign, but ultimately, I voted to leave. As far as Iím concerned, thatís that. Despite the obvious incompetence and poor preparation for the 2017 election, I supported May. I thought triggering Article 50 without a plan for what we wanted afterwards was a mistake, and I thought agreeing to the EUís refusal to agree to twin-track talks was also a mistake, but I voted Conservative as I have done my whole life because I took our Brexit commitment, and May, at her word. I stuck with it.

    What I see before me now is a government without a majority carrying out actions without a manifesto mandate, pitting executive power against a parliament that does not reflect the public mood, and a shattering series of broken promises. I see a party in full, free-flowing meltdown, with ministers actually voting against each other, and bitter arguments in local associations that are tearing apart lifelong friendships.

    I canít support that. Despite the practical issues and potential consequences, I donít see how we can continue without a general election, or at the very least a new leader. When we didnít leave on 29th March it was time for an election, for good or bad. Thatís basic democratic stuff. May doesnít represent me, and she doesnít represent almost anyone I know. I canít stand on the doorsteps in May and tell people to vote for her party, despite the excellent work our councillors do up and down the country. Iíd like to because I know and respect many of them, but I canít put leaflets through doors with May or this government on them.

    So, Iím taking an electoral holiday.

    Iím flirting with the Brexit Party, albeit worried about the influence of the dotty or dangerous far right, or I might go Green, or frankly even Raving Loony. Where is the Pirate Party when you need it? The simple reality is, that with Brexit as a single-issue subject, and with a lifetime of Tory voting and activism behind me, I simply cannot pretend any longer that I have any plans whatsoever to tick the Tory box.
    I suspect Iím not alone.

    The comments also make interesting reading.
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    Old 18th Apr 2019, 18:29
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    Never having heard of him, so?

    I asked the question earlier and don't think it was answered, what is the connection between the PM of the UK and the MEPs of the UK Governing party? I would expect their EU leader to be seen on regular visits to #10, he a household name, and have a strong presence in the media.

    And he is?
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    Old 18th Apr 2019, 18:54
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    Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
    Never having heard of him, so?

    I asked the question earlier and don't think it was answered, what is the connection between the PM of the UK and the MEPs of the UK Governing party? I would expect their EU leader to be seen on regular visits to #10, he a household name, and have a strong presence in the media.

    And he is?
    Not so much about who he is, rather the sentiment of one who was loyal to the party. He may or may not reflect the current views of the Tory faithful; we may find out soon.

    As for leader of the Tories in EU a clever, but irrelevant question. The Conservatives are essentially a minority party within Europe. Who returned the largest number of UK MEPs in 2014, and why?

    This is going to get messy.

    BTW who is the leader of the Labour group? Are they Corbynites, or Momentum, or old Labour, or Blairites?

    At least it's a simple choice for the Lib Dems
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    Old 18th Apr 2019, 19:00
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    Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
    As for leader of the Tories in EU a clever, but irrelevant question. The Conservatives are essentially a minority party within Europe. Who returned the largest number of UK MEPs in 2014, and why?
    I think the irrelevant is Tories in Europe. The Tories did return more than UKIP and Labour but to what effect?
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    Old 18th Apr 2019, 19:04
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    Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
    I think the irrelevantis Tories in Europe.
    True.

    Now what about the rest ?
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    Old 18th Apr 2019, 23:24
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    I think you people need Farage as Prime Minister for a while until you come to your senses. A bit like the Americans need Trump just to understand that while professional politicians forget who they're supposed to represent the alternative is comedy politicians with nutty visions.
    In countries without a strong democratic tradition you get dictators.


    ​​​​​​
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    Old 19th Apr 2019, 04:06
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    Originally Posted by Steepclimb View Post
    I think you people need Farage as Prime Minister for a while until you come to your senses. A bit like the Americans need Trump just to understand that while professional politicians forget who they're supposed to represent the alternative is comedy politicians with nutty visions.
    In countries without a strong democratic tradition you get dictators.


    ​​​​​​
    Well as you've mentioned the Divine Saviour and dictators in the same post, presumably you would be happy with his dictatorial stance as applied to his ( others permitted by invitation only ) party.....there again, this approach is par for the course with the Nige so many love, revere and adore.....UKIP ( deceased ) was the same in so many respects.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ution-suggests

    Last edited by Krystal n chips; 19th Apr 2019 at 05:23.
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    Old 19th Apr 2019, 07:37
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    Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
    True.

    Now what about the rest ?
    Actually you are right.

    ​​​​​​A small number of MEP s from different countries alight into larger groups but in reality they are probably no more cohesive than a UK parliamentary party and pursuing different goals.
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    Old 19th Apr 2019, 07:58
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    Thanks PN, I'm sure that lack of cohesion probably suits the EU executive.

    As an aside, I read KnC's link in the Grauniad and was intrigued by this;

    'Labour is considering applications from a number of pro-EU candidates to stand in the European elections. The Labour peer Andrew Adonis is understood to be second on the candidates’ list in the south-west, which is highly winnable, and Eloise Todd, of the Best for Britain campaign, is attempting to stand in Yorkshire.'

    If Lord Adonis were to be elected to another parliament would he have to renounce his seat in the Lords? I believe that would be the case if he were elected to the Commons, but would the same ruling apply to EU parliament? And would there be a conflict of interest?
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    Old 19th Apr 2019, 09:47
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    Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
    If Lord Adonis were to be elected to another parliament would he have to renounce his seat in the Lords? I believe that would be the case if he were elected to the Commons, but would the same ruling apply to EU parliament? And would there be a conflict of interest?
    Some of the Northern Ireland politicians have been members of the Northern Ireland Executive, the House of Commons and the European Parliament at the same time, including Ian Paisley, so not sure where the conflict of interest is. Whether it is an ideal situation is another matter...
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    Old 19th Apr 2019, 16:06
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    One of my colleagues was a member of the city council and the House of Lords at the same time.
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    Old 19th Apr 2019, 16:41
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    Originally Posted by Curious Pax View Post


    Some of the Northern Ireland politicians have been members of the Northern Ireland Executive, the House of Commons and the European Parliament at the same time, including Ian Paisley, so not sure where the conflict of interest is. Whether it is an ideal situation is another matter...
    It's clearly legal, but is it right? For my money know. One elected office per person, be that Parish Council City Council, County Council, regional parliaments / assemblies, the HoC or the European parliament. It should also be a legal requirement for elected representatives to take their seats, else they / their parties be barred from that chamber - whichever it may be.
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    Old 19th Apr 2019, 16:45
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    Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
    One elected office per person, be that Parish Council City Council, County Council, .
    There are distinct advantages in both directions to have a county councillor as a parish councillor.
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    Old 19th Apr 2019, 18:07
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    Don’t forget the awful Baroness Ashton of Upholland who was so bad even the EU got rid of her....
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    Old 19th Apr 2019, 19:23
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    Now with all the hand wringing over the border, this seems to have attracted little comment over the good intentions of the boyos

    BBC News - Lyra McKee: Murdered journalist's 'dreams snuffed out'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47990464

    Accident or intent?
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