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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:05
  #6681 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Many times I've noted that what may look like a conspiracy, especially where government is concerned, is nearly always cock-up. It seems that this may be the case with this petition shenanigans. I've been told that, in an effort to stop the petitions site from crashing (it seems there is a well-organised remain campaign to get signatures, that's being well-funded and promoted widely on social media), it's been adjusted so that reports are created much less frequently, as the report generation process was using resource and contributing to the site going down. However, when the reporting interval was increased, someone forgot to include this in the times on the report data, so way out of date reports were being reported as being up to date. Just sloppy work by whoever it was in the government's IT department/contracted service that tried to find a work around for the site crashing problem.

Have to say that I admire the ability of the remain team to coordinate support in the way they have. They are very much more effective (as they have been from the start) at being able to run a well-coordinated campaign, as this petition shows. Makes me wonder what would have happened if the leave campaign had been as well coordinated, rather than being the complete and utter shambles that it was (and still is).
You've created a conspiracy in your head there & convinced yourself it's real the space of two paragraphs. Has it occurred to you that the reason it's at 3.5m signatures is because 3.5m people are appalled by the spiralling descent into madness that's plain to see outside of the leave bubble & signed it? Of course you haven't.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:07
  #6682 (permalink)  
 
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Makes me wonder what would have happened if the leave campaign had been as well coordinated, rather than being the complete and utter shambles that it was (and still is).
err I think its been extremely well organised and planned. Its basically managed to out wit all of the remain tactics to prevent leaving. Its not focusing on public opinion I will grant you, Mainly I suspect they know fine its a lot of noise for extremely little gain. They focus on ensuring the process doesn't get deflected away from the goal.

Just look at the threads on here. Pretty much everyone has the same opinion as when it all started.

Has it occurred to you that the reason it's at 3.5m signatures is because 3.5m people are appalled by the spiralling descent into madness that's plain to see outside of the leave bubble & signed it? Of course you haven't.
I have and I suspect the vast majority of the signatures voted remain when the referendum occurred. But the remain plan for preventing exit has been outsmarted and out manoeuvred by the leave side.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:14
  #6683 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
You've created a conspiracy in your head there & convinced yourself it's real the space of two paragraphs. Has it occurred to you that the reason it's at 3.5m signatures is because 3.5m people are appalled by the spiralling descent into madness that's plain to see outside of the leave bubble & signed it? Of course you haven't.
No I haven't at all. Read my last paragraph. I'm actually impressed by the way the remain campaign are coordinating things (and there's no doubt at all they are, just look at the paid for ads they have put up over the past day or so to get people to sign this petition).
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:15
  #6684 (permalink)  
 
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The fines and criminal investigations leave keep attracting certainly suggest a level of commitment.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:27
  #6685 (permalink)  
 
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Who is actually paying these fines though I would have thought after the event then the entities will have pretty much zero cash left. And the only ones they have managed to pin anything on mainly because they can't afford decent legal representation have been spotty youths.

The fines that have been given out are chicken feed compared to the other amounts spent. And to be honest as the result required was obtained will just be looked at a petty cash expenses.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:32
  #6686 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
Who is actually paying these fines though I would have thought after the event then the entities will have pretty much zero cash left. And the only ones they have managed to pin anything on mainly because they can't afford decent legal representation have been spotty youths.

The fines that have been given out are chicken feed compared to the other amounts spent. And to be honest as the result required was obtained will just be looked at a petty cash expenses.
Sadly for the integrity of your previous arguments, who paid them and the scale isn't especially the point. The point...well, you seem to have a lot to say for yourself, let's see if you can work it actually out and everything.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:35
  #6687 (permalink)  
 
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A significant part of the referendum expenses issue seems to have stemmed from the incorrect guidance given by the Electoral Commission, confirmed by the High Court, who said that the Electoral Commission had misinterpreted the referendum rules when giving written guidance to campaigners.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:41
  #6688 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
And to be honest as the result required was obtained will just be looked at a petty cash expenses.
If that means remain in name only, or not leave at all, then I would say remain would celebrate a job done well and worth the cost, and the exit side can hang their heads in shame thinking that the referendum result would be upheld by Westminster so did not feel the need to make as much effort to leave.

Whether that view will hold if we remain and the UK economy still gets into difficulties, along with those in Europe that are rumoured to have some financial issues coming along and those that already are having problems with their economies, only time will tell.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:42
  #6689 (permalink)  
 
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For those questioning my arithmetic earlier on , and rightly so in some ways . but I was deliberately choosing numbers to be fair to Quit campaigners because if you express it in percentages it looks much much closer -no one from the Quit side ever says 3 years ago 4% more people voted leave because that is a very small number where a million or so is a big number and sounds like a landslide . Of course they are exactly the same .

Equally politicians say MPs are ignoring 17m voters but what about the 16M who voted the other way-should they be completely ignored - a suitable deal brexit could be argued as a fair representation of the result but a no deal cannot be.

The next thing is the THREE years ago. THREE years ago TM was elected to head the conservative party , now numerous MPs are calling for her head-they have changed their minds from how they voted THREE years ago because they now know shes not up to the job, but the public cannot have the same opportunity-hypocrisy or what.

In these circumstances where neither party wholly supports any option, the PM is completely out of her depth, ministers say one thing one day and another thing the next. People like Mrs Ledsom say this is now a remainer cabinet-well its got every right to be if it wants to cannot MPs change their minds when they know more about something . In sucha situation the only solution is a referendum so why are Quit so so so scared to death about a second referendum

As I wrote earlier we had a ratification referendum in the 70s so why not now, thatwas in response to somene saying we could have a second referendum in 2057 , it doesnt matter if the situations as regards what the EEC was then and the Eu is now because then was then and now is now , you can only vote for whats in front of you and a second referendum was managed then why not now. Now we know theres no 350M a week going to the NHS, we know there are no wonderful trade deals out there, we know leaving would be a shambles, we know the Russians and others gave money illegally to the Quit campaign.

Have some quitters taken just too much money from tax dodgers and the Russians to be comfortable with not delivering the goods-only speculation of course,







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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:43
  #6690 (permalink)  
 
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I have already worked it out.

Because they got done apparently that proved leave cheated and therefore the whole thing should be scraped and the UK should now stay in the EU.

Remains will heartily agree with you, leaves don't care and it will change nothing.

And as others have said it all stemmed from the Electoral commission giving out bum advice.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:44
  #6691 (permalink)  
 
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According to the 'Wail'.....

Theresa May was today accused of 'declaring open war' on her own Eurosceptic MPs by promising a free vote on a second referendum or revoking Article 50 if her Brexit deal is killed off next week.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:47
  #6692 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
I have already worked it out.

Because they got done apparently that proved leave cheated and therefore the whole thing should be scraped and the UK should now stay in the EU.

Remains will heartily agree with you, leaves don't care and it will change nothing.
Again... with feeling... that's not quite the same tack you took even two posts ago. Have you by any chance fallen into a barrel of oil? The slipperiness is marvelous..
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 19:09
  #6693 (permalink)  
 
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Usual try and deflect away from the substance by going for personal comments about the person that said it. It didn't work in the Scottish referendum, it didn't work in the run up to the Brexit referendum and it hasn't worked since then over the last two years. The UK is still on course to exit in 7 days time.

And even if it doesn't the damage to the relationship with the EU and economically means that things will never be the same again.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 19:16
  #6694 (permalink)  
 
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Just as we thought it was possible we were in the end zone of leaving the EU, May comes up with this:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-April-12.html

Remain side can congratulate themselves on a successful campaign to overturn a democratic vote because they did not like it, although if another referendum is held what on earth would they do if leave won again, but that will not happen, and not because anyone has changed their minds, or lots have passed on, but because leaving will not be on the ballot paper, it will be worded so remain will be the only possible outcome.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 19:16
  #6695 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
Usual try and deflect away from the substance by going for personal comments about the person that said it. It didn't work in the Scottish referendum, it didn't work in the run up to the Brexit referendum and it hasn't worked since then over the last two years. The UK is still on course to exit in 7 days time.

And even if it doesn't the damage to the relationship with the EU and economically means that things will never be the same again.
Umm, deflection is what I'm suggesting youre up to. And since you just went all shirty & accused me of doing the same thing, I think you've had a good go at squirming your way off a subject you can't really answer to anyone's satisfaction.

Charlatan, some would conclude. Enjoy your Friday!
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 19:46
  #6696 (permalink)  
 
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I expect something "spectacular" Saturday week.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 19:49
  #6697 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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BBC:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36640459

EU referendum petition hijacked by bots

.......”
4chan is famous for this sort of mischief - and if websites don't have systems in place, they will get abused."........

Some members of the 4chan message board have claimed responsibility for the hijack.

"I voted 33,000 times. Left a script running while I was taking a shower," wrote one member........


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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 20:23
  #6698 (permalink)  
 
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I assume you intended to include somewhere in that post when that BBC piece was written and which poll it was referring to?






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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 20:33
  #6699 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: se england
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Every General election, indeed every election, has the potential to overturn a democratic vote but perhaps you don't understand what democracy means.

And it is not as if the referendum was democratic with mountains of lies , foreign money involvement and illegal funding .

However tonight it seems more democracy in action as Tory MPs (some of them) want to vote out TM to overturn a democratic vote three years ago but wont let the public change their mind after three years .

Take back control and give it a parliament that makes Italy and Greece look like the stablest countries in the Eu and has made the UK the laughing stock of the world in addition it positions us as bunch of backsliders and deal breakers -oh yes Mr Fox lets sign a trade agreement with you-oh on second thoughts maybe not because if you dont like it you will just walk away -thats what you Brits do isnt it.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 20:39
  #6700 (permalink)  
 
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"I voted 33,000 times. Left a script running while I was taking a shower," wrote one member........
....in June...2016.
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