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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 18th Mar 2019, 15:16
  #6361 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
we want
Oh look, another expat who thinks they speak for 70 million people & has totally thought this through.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 15:20
  #6362 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Another view from Europe, albeit with some less than flattering comments from Matthew Parris..:

Theresa May's Brexit Disaster - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Yep, it was Mrs Mayís Lancaster House speech which set us down this road for Brexit. Not the remainers, and not the Europeans, and also not those who voted for a Brexit that took us out of the EU in an orderly and thought out manner. And Mrs May was getting cheered on by those who are now voting against her.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 15:21
  #6363 (permalink)  
 
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I didn't realise there was 70 million leavers. That's a fair old number of us...Ö

There was never going to be a orderly exit. It doesn't matter who is the PM.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 15:29
  #6364 (permalink)  
 
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Tapp, Regarding an orderly exit, I beg to differ with your opinion. There were plenty of those in the Civil Service who understood how to deal with the EU and how to negotiate with them. They were not listened to from the outset and as such we went into negotiations without an appreciation of how the other side works.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 15:34
  #6365 (permalink)  
 
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If there was an orderly exit it would mean that the UK would have a successful and productive escape from the EU. This is completely unacceptable to the EU politically.

If it was UK civil servants dealing with EU civil servants with the object to get a fuss free exit with minimal damage to both sides then I agree it might have been possible.

But the EU has to ensure that the UK cannot escape the CU and it doesn't encourage any other member to escape.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 15:49
  #6366 (permalink)  
 
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Tapp again : Well indeed but certainly the expectation was that we may go down the road of Efta, and leaving the CU may well have led to some challenging negotiations, it would have meant the issue of Northern Ireland simply did not happen. As it is, from 01/04 we will have to start negotiating with the bloc from a very lowly position, and they are going to negotiate with us as a competitor, and will screw us down accordingly.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 15:51
  #6367 (permalink)  
 
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Anyway, moving on from the Russian plumber who apparently has top level contacts in Brussels, Bercow has stuck it to the government. MV3 will not be allowed for debate if it is substantially the same as MV's 1 &2. Parliament clears it's throat.

Hello, I'm meaningful vote number three....



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Old 18th Mar 2019, 15:57
  #6368 (permalink)  
 
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We shall see what happens, the EU has lost a major chunk of its import market. Its going to have issues with its current trade deals never mind new ones due to the fact its usual carrot to sell is now gone.

Oh and the German draft budget is out , and there is no planning for Brexit. When asked they said its because Brexit is on hold for this year.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 15:57
  #6369 (permalink)  
 
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The road narrows. No deal or extension or substantially amended offer to Parliament. One of those is unpalatable, another is unachievable in the time left & moreover a PM with a tin ear, yet another is not in our gift and that leaves one thing: Revocation.

Laughing like a hyena. This government, honestly.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 16:09
  #6370 (permalink)  
 
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Have you got the mouth wash ready for a nasty taste in your mouth Para?

I found Gin was the only substance for getting rid of the taste of Diesel if I got a mouth full syphoning it. Better get a couple bottles in for next Friday night..
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 16:09
  #6371 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by zoigberg View Post
Tapp, Regarding an orderly exit, I beg to differ with your opinion. There were plenty of those in the Civil Service who understood how to deal with the EU and how to negotiate with them. They were not listened to from the outset and as such we went into negotiations without an appreciation of how the other side works.

Very true.
The CS would have handled it very differently if left to run the negotiations. The exit would have been resolved much sooner and cleaner and with less ill will.

BUT the result would have been just the same, because the EU were neither willing nor able to offer more than they have.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 16:14
  #6372 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Very true.
The CS would have handled it very differently if left to run the negotiations. The exit would have been resolved much sooner and cleaner and with less ill will.

BUT the result would have been just the same, because the EU were neither willing nor able to offer more than they have.
The result may well have been different if the red lines had been different.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 16:16
  #6373 (permalink)  
 
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Quite. This mess is a direct result of choices made by May. People forget this.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 16:20
  #6374 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47614074

Well that's sorted then, wonder what the next card to be played is.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 16:31
  #6375 (permalink)  
EstŠ servira para distraerle.
 
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Re John Bercow:
Votes on the "same or substantially the same motion" would not be allowed, he said.

Isn't that a little strange when so many of the votes that have happened in parliament over the last two years have all been about throwing out the result of a referendum that the parliamentarians themselves, including the speaker, never thought would be won by a dimwitted, badly organised, uneducated, poverty sicken, bovine majority of the people that didn't live outside London, didn't have houses in France, didn't employ au pairs, didn't drive Range Rovers or have picnic baskets and weren't therefore inclined to be of low moral compass?
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 16:53
  #6376 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by zoigberg View Post


The result may well have been different if the red lines had been different.
​​May's red lines turned out to have been only yellow.

The EU's red lines are fixed in their constitution and were never available to be changed.

Cameron found that out before he called the referendum.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 17:02
  #6377 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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If MV3 can’t be presented again, it can’t be modified, which precludes the amendment requiring a confirmatory referendum and the amendment allowing parliament to take control of parliamentary business.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 17:07
  #6378 (permalink)  
 
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This is the inevitable culmination of the lies & dishonesty leave campaigners have pushed for three years.In the final analysis, it had to come home to roost. The PM promised to end freedom of movement but retain trade advantages. This was never in prospect, The body has rotted from the head down. Not one Brexit supporting member of the Government has ever stood up & contradicted this. Instead they perpetuated the lie & piled more on top.

if we go without a deal, then so be it. It will be the leave lies & only the leave lies that propel us to that point. It will never be forgotten. The natural party of government, the friend of business shafting the nation. And the useful idiots will cheer it on.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 17:08
  #6379 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
If MV3 canít be presented again, it canít be modified, which precludes the amendment requiring a confirmatory referendum and the referendum allowing parliament to take control of parliamentary business.
It can't be modified anyway. That requires the EU to reopen negotiations. that is not happening. It's dead.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 17:19
  #6380 (permalink)  
 
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Can't for the life of me understand the manipulation and fooling around that has gone on so far but surely, if the government and May don't come up with something in the next few days does the UK not automatically leave the EU with no deal on March the 29th by virtue of Article 50?
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