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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 15th Mar 2019, 10:02
  #6221 (permalink)  
 
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I think the EU will accept a delay and a long one, as it is my belief they are complicit in the making of this mess to make sure that leaving is as difficult it can be, and this despite the expense and inconvenience to them, having said that I don’t really believe they want the UK to be voting in MEP’s who they believe will be disruptive and undermine their future plans, however, maybe they are confident they can manage that situation in the hope that the UK does not leave, which in the longer term would more advantageous to them, as has been said before, we wait and see how this drama continues to pan out over the next few weeks,
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 10:17
  #6222 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
I think the EU will accept a delay and a long one, as it is my belief they are complicit in the making of this mess to make sure that leaving is as difficult it can be ...
There we go again - 'it's all the fault of the EU'

The UK set the exit date when it triggered Art.50.
An exit agreement was reached months ago. It's sorted, done.
The EU is prepared for the UK to leave on March 29th.

It is the UK government/parliament that can't decide what it wants to do now.
Yes, the EU would prefer us to stay. But they can only sit and watch now as we fall to pieces on the rocks at the bottom of Brexit Cliff.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 10:19
  #6223 (permalink)  
 
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I think there will be several countries want conditions to be imposed which won't be acceptable for an extension leaving only out no deal or cancel.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 10:29
  #6224 (permalink)  
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I know, it's not about Brexit and thus it's easy to miss other matters in the UK, but, here's another happy example of privatisation coming home to roost ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47575123

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Old 15th Mar 2019, 10:48
  #6225 (permalink)  
 
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Presumably you’d prefer a statist-socialist utopia where nobody ever goes bust but in the (frequent) event of mismanagement the only option is to firehose on tens or hundreds of millions of taxpayers £’s

ps +1 to your earlier comment on conflicting with the Ashes
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 10:50
  #6226 (permalink)  
 
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Will Crapita be next I wonder?
One can live in hope.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 10:55
  #6227 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
There we go again - 'it's all the fault of the EU'

The UK set the exit date when it triggered Art.50.
An exit agreement was reached months ago. It's sorted, done.
The EU is prepared for the UK to leave on March 29th.

It is the UK government/parliament that can't decide what it wants to do now.
Yes, the EU would prefer us to stay. But they can only sit and watch now as we fall to pieces on the rocks at the bottom of Brexit Cliff.
I did not say 'it's all the fault of the EU' I said it is my belief that they are complicit with the UK as they do not want us to leave, which is an opinion just as valid as others are, even if on opposite sides of the debate. The rest of it I totally agree with, well, accept the falling to pieces at the bottom of the rocks, but we will have to agree to disagree on that one
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 10:59
  #6228 (permalink)  
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Is cancellation viable in the time left?
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 11:02
  #6229 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Presumably you’d prefer a statist-socialist utopia where nobody ever goes bust but in the (frequent) event of mismanagement the only option is to firehose on tens or hundreds of millions of taxpayers £’s

ps +1 to your earlier comment on conflicting with the Ashes
Sadly, you seem to have missed the fact this Gov't does precisely that when the panacea of privatisation goes for a can of worms......courtesy of the ever generous UK tax payer.

Crapita ?...enticing thought I agree, but, think of the potential reduction in column inches for "Private Eye " !

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Old 15th Mar 2019, 11:03
  #6230 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Is cancellation viable in the time left?
Yes. Send a letter to leave. Send a letter to call the whole thing off.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 11:24
  #6231 (permalink)  
 
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“Government does precisely that...”. No it doesn’t. According to the article you posted the main financial hit is being taken by a New York hedge fund. And my heart bleeds for them!
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 11:39
  #6232 (permalink)  
 
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But to send that letter legal requires an act of parliament to be repealed which requires it to go to the house then to the lord's then back to the house then to the queen.

That's after the house votes for it in the first place.

Then we get into the fun and games of being in a club that we have been fighting with for the last 3 years that wants to progress in a direction that the UK doesn't and knows fine that as soon as it starts then the UK will have extreme pressure to leave again.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 12:06
  #6233 (permalink)  
 
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The second part of that is irrelevant & the first is irrelevant. If we decide to revoke, then the clock stops. That's it. You are making the argument that Brexit must happen because it can't be stopped which as discussed here earlier this week is entirely unpersuasive, It's sort of more an expression of your fears really, which is understandable but nevertheless, it stands up like a fart in the wind.

Whether we reach that point is another matter entirely, Clearly it is now the only rational course of action, but this is Brexit, The SS Rational sailed years ago.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 12:31
  #6234 (permalink)  
 
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I am not making an argument either way to be honest.

The clock does not stop or get extended until the process for stopping/extending it is complete.

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Old 15th Mar 2019, 12:32
  #6235 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8823836.html

Brexit: Cabinet unity crumbles as eight top ministers refuse to back Theresa May's Article 50 extension

The unity of Theresa May’s cabinet has publicly crumbled after eight of her most senior ministers refused to back her plan to delay Brexit by three months. Those who failed to support it included the prime minister’s Brexit secretary Stephen Barclay, who was joined by 187 other Conservative MPs and frontbenchers in voting against her approach
That would be the same Stephen Barclay who made the closing speech for the government in favour of the motion. I quote Hansard: “It is time for this House to act in the national interest. It is time to put forward an extension that is realistic. I commend the Government motion to the House.”

Yet another entry in the Brexit bumper book of “You could not make it up”!
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 12:57
  #6236 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
“Government does precisely that...”. No it doesn’t. According to the article you posted the main financial hit is being taken by a New York hedge fund. And my heart bleeds for them!
So does mine, profusely as you can imagine......however....just one minor point which you seem to have overlooked....Gov't generosity to failed, well avaricious to be more precise, privatisation ventures has been going on for some considerable time even if this latest failure, for now at least, hasn't been the recipient .

Here's a helpful list to revive your memory....

https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...tion-austerity
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 13:07
  #6237 (permalink)  
 
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I think the best interests of the EU are for the UK to accept May's deal. For reasons previously mentioned they don't really want the UK being dragged along with their political project because we will just get in the way. The WA is probably somewhat skewed in their favour, which is why the ERG dislike it so much. Right now I think any comment from the EU is for the purpose of ratcheting up the pressure on MPs to accept the deal on offer.

Regardless of what is said most don't want a no-deal exit, although both sides would survive if it happened.

For all the ridicule aimed at May for bringing the deal back a third time, I suspect there is a reasonable chance that enough Brexiteers and the DUP will hold their nose and vote for it faced with the alternatives.

Although the backstop is undesirable I can see why the EU would be minded to get out of it. We would have access to the single market, no contributions and no free movement whilst we were in it. I don't think they would want that situation to persist for too long.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 13:47
  #6238 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
I am not making an argument either way to be honest.

The clock does not stop or get extended until the process for stopping/extending it is complete.
Which is why I asked if it is viable.

Two opposing arguments.

Is there time? Would the EU agree? I know legal opinion suggests they don't have to.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 13:54
  #6239 (permalink)  
 
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Well what a pickle, just some of my musings put together from comments on various forums/media :

1. The UK wants to exit the EU, but it does not really.
2. The UK wants a deal, but not the only one on the table that the EU will accept.
3. The UK does not want ‘No Deal’, but they don’t accept the only deal on the table, so on that premise the legal position is we leave under WTO rules on the 29th, or at the end of any agreed extension, if that position remains the same.
4. We are told that there will not be another referendum by both the main parties, but we will probably have one anyway.
5. We are told there won’t be another GE until after Brexit or 2022, but we will probably have one anyway.
6. The UK wants an extension, but only three months, or 21 months, or something else in between.
7. May was supposed to be on her way out ever since she became PM, but she is still there, as despite everything, no one, probably even Corbyn wants to be PM until Brexit has been put to bed one way or the other.
8. If May did leave who would end up PM and what would they do with regard Brexit.
9. The main parties have never muted revoking Article 50 as far as I have seen, but would that be the final act after 4, 5, 6, or 8 above.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 15:33
  #6240 (permalink)  
 
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The people of the UK want to leave the EU - the politicians don't.
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