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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:11
  #6181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Which wasn't remotely the point but whatever.
Then what is the point of a delay? Are we going to wake up after a delay and find it was all a terrible dream?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:12
  #6182 (permalink)  
 
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You tell me? I was pointing out the duplicity of Farage. Others brought up the extension.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:13
  #6183 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
To spell this out in terms even Brexiteers can understand, that's a two bob huckster who's made a career out of railing against foreign interference in UK politics openly lobbying foreign governments to interfere in UK politics.

If any of you ardent leavers have a good word to say about that man, you really, really need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.
+1........and of course there is the issue of Banks seemingly lobbying Salvini.

Hypocrits.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:20
  #6184 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Then what is the point of a delay? Are we going to wake up after a delay and find it was all a terrible dream?
We've had Canada + and Norway, now we have the Dallas option.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:37
  #6185 (permalink)  
 
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Until yesterday, I would have disagreed that revocation was the best & most rational option. Too inflammatory. But Brexit supporting MP's had their chance to vote for Brexit & they turned it down. Balls to them.

Take the medicine, you had a chance, you came at it without a plan, only a string of self serving delusions that got you absolutely nowhere. Pull the plug now, learn the lessons, come back in due course with a fresh mandate coupled with a workable plan & try again.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:55
  #6186 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
+1........and of course there is the issue of Banks seemingly lobbying Salvini.

Hypocrits.
except that seems to be fake news

https://order-order.com/2019/03/13/c...-bankski-plot/
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 12:44
  #6187 (permalink)  
 
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Having been accused (quite mildly to be fair) of abusing Quitters by using a bit of faux news and rhetoric of theirs against them , something some of them are happy to do with their continual abuse of stayers as snowflakes and traitors they dont like it turned back on them. But as I say they were mild accusations and we are all slowed differences of opinion.
So leaving aside the crookedness of the conservative party and ineptness of labour, pretty much confirming one line description of each for the last 70 odd years here is Bloomberg (not raving commies pinkos etc as far as I recall) about some of the realities facing UL if we do leave and which Quitters have glossed over just to go back to a blue passport for the masses and to continue tax evasion scams for the elite.

Britain is preparing to return to the 19th century in the event of a hard Brexit ó or at least to experiment with unilateral free trade on a scale unseen since the repeal of agricultural tariffs in 1846 changed the course of history.

But in the modern world, tariffs just are not as important as fans such as President Donald Trump make them out to be. Other barriers, such as regulation, are likely to be the biggest obstacle to trade and cause of damage to the British economy.

The Governmentís plan ó temporary, of course, ministers assure us ó is to allow 87 per cent of the Britainís total imports in tariff-free, compared with about 80 per cent today. Levies would apply only to meat, some dairy products, finished vehicles ó although not car parts ó and a small assortment of other goods. Since no customs controls will be applied at the, shall we say, porous border with Ireland, Britain seems willing to unilaterally allow all goods to be imported tariff-free, at least for a time.

This is in line with advice the Government has been getting from pro-Brexit economists. They argue that unilateral free trade will lower prices for consumers and force firms to compete harder, boosting their productivity. Before Britain repealed its protectionist Corn Laws, a similar argument was made: cheap grain imports would drive down bread prices, allow industrialists to lower wages, and help industry to flourish.

It is politically impossible to make that case today, but a similar argument can be masked by verbiage about a boost to Britainís international competitiveness that would offset the tariffs facing British exports.

It all worked famously in the 19th century, helping to transform Britain from an agricultural power into an industrial power. But the Britainís problem after Brexit will not be the loss of the substantial tariff protections that come with being a European Union member; those, as free traders correctly argue, are as much of a curse as a blessing. The bigger danger is being kept out of European markets by all sorts of other means applied to outsiders and even to some of the blocís newer members.

In a recent paper, Erdal Yalcin from the University of Applied Sciences in Konstanz, Germany, and his collaborators calculated that non-tariff barriers such as import controls, subsidies, public procurement policies, and sanitary standards could reduce imports of affected products by up to 12 per cent. Thatís not on the scale of the 50 per cent drop in US imports of German cars economists expect if Trump imposes a levy ó but itís a substantial reduction nonetheless.

Lax UK import controls would lower one potentially costly non-trade barrier: border controls, with their delays and red tape. However, it looks like British exports to the EU would still face that obstacle since the bloc has not committed to abolish customs checks.

No economist, however, has a clear understanding of how regulatory obstacles on the EU side will affect British companies trying to trade with Europe. That is because such barriers are numerous and differ between countries.

The Polish Economic Institute, a government-backed think-tank, recently released a report on protectionism inside the EU. It argues that ďoldĒ members of the bloc often erect administrative barriers to stymie foreign rivals. They also protect their own firms with subsidies, even at the price of violating the common marketís rules. According to the report, infringement procedures against the EUís longstanding members tend to drag on rather longer than they do against more recent entrants. Similarly, the EU more regularly orders its newer and less influential members to refund illegal state aid than it does the blocís older and bigger ones. With all that going on inside the supposedly free and single EU market, itís difficult to predict what barriers will be thrown up once Britain becomes an outsider. Most EU countries will be only too happy to push British companies out of their markets after Brexit.

Likewise, it is hard to estimate the impact of non-tariff barriers using those that already exist between the EU and US as a benchmark. Britain will be in a far less powerful negotiating position than the US when it tries to sign any trade agreement.

For Brexiters, much of the present exercise is about reliving Britainís glorious history. The temptation to hark back to the days of the repeal of the Corn Laws is strong. The world, however, has changed too much for such time travel to address real-life problems. The reality of being outside the EU, dependent on it and yet having no say in its rules, has not quite dawned on the British yet. But hey, there will be tariff-free French, German and Danish marmalade to sweeten it all until the really painful trade talks with the EU and US begin



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Old 14th Mar 2019, 13:15
  #6188 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Just watching the Parliament Channel and the Brexit MPs anger with The Speaker for refusing to allow their ammendment for tonight's vote.

I'm reminded of the old quote usually attributed to Kevin Keegan -

There's only three rules in football -
There are 22 players
There's one ball
And Germany always wins.


It seems that we could now use the same analogy along the lines of -

There's only three rules in European politics -
Whenever there is a referendum about the EU, t
he anti-EU vote is always the majority.
The EU's political supporters always manage to overturn or ignore the result of the referendum
And the EU always wins.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 16:14
  #6189 (permalink)  
 
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But hey, there will be tariff-free French, German and Danish marmalade to sweeten it all until the really painful trade talks with the EU and US begin
That's going to be the really interesting one. How to reach trade deals with the EU and the US, which in some cases will be mutually exclusive.
It's just as well that our government negotiators have honed their skills and demonstrated their effectiveness in implementing Brexit. We are in safe hands !
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 16:50
  #6190 (permalink)  
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Fancy Treeza not taking his advice !......but it's nice to see the enthusiasm for the inevitably one side ( and it won't be to the UK's advantage ) trade deal.....

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ks-latest-news
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 17:05
  #6191 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 17:21
  #6192 (permalink)  
 
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Which simply confirms once again what we all know.
Britain is split irreparably down the middle over Brexit.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 17:41
  #6193 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Which simply confirms once again what we all know.
Britain is split irreparably down the middle over Brexit.
I don't believe anyone wants a delay, but since MPs can't decide what they want (just what they don't) there is little alternative to go back to Brussels and grovel to get one. That leave voters are less keen than remain voters is obviously because they fear a delay will be the start of a slippery slope towards no Brexit; remainers keener as they can see the downside of leaving with no deal, and of course, they too believe that it is the start move towards no Brexit.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 18:22
  #6194 (permalink)  
 
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There has been two and a half years of delay and time for preparation for Brexit. Only now, with two weeks to go until Brexit, are moves being made to delay Brexit because there hasn't been enough time to prepare. Get real!

Hard Brexit may not be the government's position, but it sits well with at least 17.4 million people.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 19:01
  #6195 (permalink)  
 
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According to a BBC report just now, his "advice" consisted mainly that May should sue the EU! The same article revealed how he lied about predicting the outcome of the referendum. He said he predicted Brexit a day before the referendum while at his golf course in Scotland. Shame he was actually at his golf course the day after the referendum!
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 19:21
  #6196 (permalink)  
 
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Pax its not a harking back to the good old days, it more a intense dislike over the ever closer political, financial and military union that the eu is determined to proceed with despite the population of many of its members nations not wanting a united states of europe. The really worrying thing is that the eu has repetedly ignored the signs that closer integration is not very popular. Hence the ever increasing popularity of anti eu parties. The make up of the eu parliament after the elections in May may well be very differnt. if it were purely a trading bloc which it was originally then brexit would not have been an issue. However it has become increasingly obvious by fair means or foul that it has evolved into something the uk and a lot of member states did not sign up to. The counties of the former eastern block did not throw off the shackles of the old ussr only to join something that is evolving into something similar.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 19:21
  #6197 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
In the old days, which I remember with affection, a lot of the 17,4 million would have marched on Parliament with the certain intention of tarring and feathering the few hundred.
The next march is on 23rd. The expectation is that there will be 1m remainers and about 27 #NeonNazis. But I'm sure they'd welcome you making that 28.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 19:59
  #6198 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter;1041806\

Take the medicine, you had a chance, you came at it without a plan, only a string of self serving delusions that got you absolutely nowhere. Pull the plug now, learn the lessons, come back in due course with a fresh mandate coupled with a workable plan & try again.
+1 .
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 20:03
  #6199 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Which simply confirms once again what we all know.
Britain is split irreparably down the middle over Brexit.
​​​​​​On what basis?
i
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 20:05
  #6200 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
According to a BBC report just now, his "advice" consisted mainly that May should sue the EU! The same article revealed how he lied about predicting the outcome of the referendum. He said he predicted Brexit a day before the referendum while at his golf course in Scotland. Shame he was actually at his golf course the day after the referendum!
Who?

Was it Trump?
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