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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 13th Mar 2019, 22:40
  #6181 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer View Post
Are we there, yet, Mum?
Think we made the wrong turning at a rounabout but don't worry we will see the roundabout again. Makes going round the Magic Rounabout in Swindon seem normal.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 23:02
  #6182 (permalink)  
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Rule Britannia, Britain blinked first.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 23:13
  #6183 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
Rule Britannia, Britain blinked first.

Britain didn't blink first.

A few hundred EU supporting politicians did, not 17.4 million UK citizens.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 23:44
  #6184 (permalink)  
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In the old days, which I remember with affection, a lot of the 17,4 million would have marched on Parliament with the certain intention of tarring and feathering the few hundred. These days might one hope for such a march with the knackers yard as the end goal?
It's getting close to the point where observers who have always fought against Marxism would prefer to see a decade of cruel hard socialist rule with all the destruction that implies if it would destroy the sort of Conservatism that has permeated parliament and has corrupted a once great party just as much as Corbyn has his.

Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 13th Mar 2019 at 23:55.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 23:58
  #6185 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
In the old days, which I remember with affection, a lot of the 17,4 million would have marched on Parliament with the certain intention of tarring and feathering the few hundred. These days might one hope for such a march with the knackers yard as the end goal?

I'd like to believe they would be marching here but they didn't

Instead, we got Mdm LePen - a genuine right wing racist but whose party picks up the votes of those who still remember how the politicians ignored the result of our 2005 referendum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_F...ion_referendum

I suppose those 17.4 million are far too British to take to the barricades, but maybe those UK politicians who are insisting on trying to overturn the results of the UK referendum might look over here to see what real racists are like and reflect on how they just might be sewing the seeds of a similar problem for the UK in the not too distant future.


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Old 14th Mar 2019, 06:53
  #6186 (permalink)  
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Coming soon, to a High street near you, a forlorn figure huddled on a pavement with a cardboard sign round his neck....."Former MEP, please give generously, now broke ".......but at least Nige has been consistent........ with his fallacies about the EU, immigrants and now..... himself......

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...sets-up-400000
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 09:08
  #6187 (permalink)  
 
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If thatís meant to be sarcastic, the one thing Farageís position (much as I disagree with it) has been throughout is consistent. And Verhofstadtís charge that he wants an extension to keep drawing his salary doesnít stack up either since he has publicly called on the EU to reject such an extension.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 09:20
  #6188 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
If thatís meant to be sarcastic, the one thing Farageís position (much as I disagree with it) has been throughout is consistent. And Verhofstadtís charge that he wants an extension to keep drawing his salary doesnít stack up either since he has publicly called on the EU to reject such an extension.
That's a pretty poor defence. He can "publicly call" all he likes but at this stage he no influence on Brexit. He's made a lot of money out of the EU and continues to do so.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 09:32
  #6189 (permalink)  
 
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It's clearly escaped some people's notice that ultra patriotic, Nigel 'wrestle back control from the evil clutches of Europe' Farage has been putting himself about, boasting of lobbying various European politicians to oppose any article 50 extension. To spell this out in terms even Brexiteers can understand, that's a two bob huckster who's made a career out of railing against foreign interference in UK politics openly lobbying foreign governments to interfere in UK politics.

If any of you ardent leavers have a good word to say about that man, you really, really need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

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Old 14th Mar 2019, 09:58
  #6190 (permalink)  
 
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Leaver or remainer, extension (till when, for what?) is worst of all possible worlds.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:03
  #6191 (permalink)  
 
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Which wasn't remotely the point but whatever.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:11
  #6192 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Which wasn't remotely the point but whatever.
Then what is the point of a delay? Are we going to wake up after a delay and find it was all a terrible dream?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:12
  #6193 (permalink)  
 
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You tell me? I was pointing out the duplicity of Farage. Others brought up the extension.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:13
  #6194 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
To spell this out in terms even Brexiteers can understand, that's a two bob huckster who's made a career out of railing against foreign interference in UK politics openly lobbying foreign governments to interfere in UK politics.

If any of you ardent leavers have a good word to say about that man, you really, really need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.
+1........and of course there is the issue of Banks seemingly lobbying Salvini.

Hypocrits.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:20
  #6195 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Then what is the point of a delay? Are we going to wake up after a delay and find it was all a terrible dream?
We've had Canada + and Norway, now we have the Dallas option.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:37
  #6196 (permalink)  
 
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Until yesterday, I would have disagreed that revocation was the best & most rational option. Too inflammatory. But Brexit supporting MP's had their chance to vote for Brexit & they turned it down. Balls to them.

Take the medicine, you had a chance, you came at it without a plan, only a string of self serving delusions that got you absolutely nowhere. Pull the plug now, learn the lessons, come back in due course with a fresh mandate coupled with a workable plan & try again.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:55
  #6197 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
+1........and of course there is the issue of Banks seemingly lobbying Salvini.

Hypocrits.
except that seems to be fake news

https://order-order.com/2019/03/13/c...-bankski-plot/
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 12:44
  #6198 (permalink)  
 
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Having been accused (quite mildly to be fair) of abusing Quitters by using a bit of faux news and rhetoric of theirs against them , something some of them are happy to do with their continual abuse of stayers as snowflakes and traitors they dont like it turned back on them. But as I say they were mild accusations and we are all slowed differences of opinion.
So leaving aside the crookedness of the conservative party and ineptness of labour, pretty much confirming one line description of each for the last 70 odd years here is Bloomberg (not raving commies pinkos etc as far as I recall) about some of the realities facing UL if we do leave and which Quitters have glossed over just to go back to a blue passport for the masses and to continue tax evasion scams for the elite.

Britain is preparing to return to the 19th century in the event of a hard Brexit ó or at least to experiment with unilateral free trade on a scale unseen since the repeal of agricultural tariffs in 1846 changed the course of history.

But in the modern world, tariffs just are not as important as fans such as President Donald Trump make them out to be. Other barriers, such as regulation, are likely to be the biggest obstacle to trade and cause of damage to the British economy.

The Governmentís plan ó temporary, of course, ministers assure us ó is to allow 87 per cent of the Britainís total imports in tariff-free, compared with about 80 per cent today. Levies would apply only to meat, some dairy products, finished vehicles ó although not car parts ó and a small assortment of other goods. Since no customs controls will be applied at the, shall we say, porous border with Ireland, Britain seems willing to unilaterally allow all goods to be imported tariff-free, at least for a time.

This is in line with advice the Government has been getting from pro-Brexit economists. They argue that unilateral free trade will lower prices for consumers and force firms to compete harder, boosting their productivity. Before Britain repealed its protectionist Corn Laws, a similar argument was made: cheap grain imports would drive down bread prices, allow industrialists to lower wages, and help industry to flourish.

It is politically impossible to make that case today, but a similar argument can be masked by verbiage about a boost to Britainís international competitiveness that would offset the tariffs facing British exports.

It all worked famously in the 19th century, helping to transform Britain from an agricultural power into an industrial power. But the Britainís problem after Brexit will not be the loss of the substantial tariff protections that come with being a European Union member; those, as free traders correctly argue, are as much of a curse as a blessing. The bigger danger is being kept out of European markets by all sorts of other means applied to outsiders and even to some of the blocís newer members.

In a recent paper, Erdal Yalcin from the University of Applied Sciences in Konstanz, Germany, and his collaborators calculated that non-tariff barriers such as import controls, subsidies, public procurement policies, and sanitary standards could reduce imports of affected products by up to 12 per cent. Thatís not on the scale of the 50 per cent drop in US imports of German cars economists expect if Trump imposes a levy ó but itís a substantial reduction nonetheless.

Lax UK import controls would lower one potentially costly non-trade barrier: border controls, with their delays and red tape. However, it looks like British exports to the EU would still face that obstacle since the bloc has not committed to abolish customs checks.

No economist, however, has a clear understanding of how regulatory obstacles on the EU side will affect British companies trying to trade with Europe. That is because such barriers are numerous and differ between countries.

The Polish Economic Institute, a government-backed think-tank, recently released a report on protectionism inside the EU. It argues that ďoldĒ members of the bloc often erect administrative barriers to stymie foreign rivals. They also protect their own firms with subsidies, even at the price of violating the common marketís rules. According to the report, infringement procedures against the EUís longstanding members tend to drag on rather longer than they do against more recent entrants. Similarly, the EU more regularly orders its newer and less influential members to refund illegal state aid than it does the blocís older and bigger ones. With all that going on inside the supposedly free and single EU market, itís difficult to predict what barriers will be thrown up once Britain becomes an outsider. Most EU countries will be only too happy to push British companies out of their markets after Brexit.

Likewise, it is hard to estimate the impact of non-tariff barriers using those that already exist between the EU and US as a benchmark. Britain will be in a far less powerful negotiating position than the US when it tries to sign any trade agreement.

For Brexiters, much of the present exercise is about reliving Britainís glorious history. The temptation to hark back to the days of the repeal of the Corn Laws is strong. The world, however, has changed too much for such time travel to address real-life problems. The reality of being outside the EU, dependent on it and yet having no say in its rules, has not quite dawned on the British yet. But hey, there will be tariff-free French, German and Danish marmalade to sweeten it all until the really painful trade talks with the EU and US begin



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Old 14th Mar 2019, 13:15
  #6199 (permalink)  
 
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Just watching the Parliament Channel and the Brexit MPs anger with The Speaker for refusing to allow their ammendment for tonight's vote.

I'm reminded of the old quote usually attributed to Kevin Keegan -

There's only three rules in football -
There are 22 players
There's one ball
And Germany always wins.


It seems that we could now use the same analogy along the lines of -

There's only three rules in European politics -
Whenever there is a referendum about the EU, t
he anti-EU vote is always the majority.
The EU's political supporters always manage to overturn or ignore the result of the referendum
And the EU always wins.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 16:14
  #6200 (permalink)  
 
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But hey, there will be tariff-free French, German and Danish marmalade to sweeten it all until the really painful trade talks with the EU and US begin
That's going to be the really interesting one. How to reach trade deals with the EU and the US, which in some cases will be mutually exclusive.
It's just as well that our government negotiators have honed their skills and demonstrated their effectiveness in implementing Brexit. We are in safe hands !
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