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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 11th Mar 2019, 17:19
  #6041 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
Of course the Eu is protectionist in its trade deals-Every country on earth is especially USA , Airbus vs Boeing Tankers for one example

Also the Eu is big enough to stand up to the US but lil old England is nt and that will be one very short negotiation- Sign her Mr Fox and get back on the plane, no need to worry about chlorinated chicken , steriods and hormones they are all good for you , but we are your oldest friends aren't we, actuall buddy you are our oldest enemies . The Chinese and Indians are slavering to do trade deals with us , I mean they look back fondly over the time we humialited them in the Opium wars , giving us Hong Kong and of course we ruled India by military force -they love us

We have almost no real exports and run one of the biggest trade deficits in the world . The main chance of protecting our industries is the EU. Of course they will collapse in days because we will never buy Mercs BMWs Audis and VWs again -we will buy British cars like those made in Sunderland and Swindon , they are Japanese-what do you mean. Anyway the Japs love us as a fellow Island race we are just like them -except we dont have a massive industrial base, giant tech companies, massive trade protection barreirs and another 120 odd million people .

I know we are British (ie English) and therefore the best in the world at everything and never tell lies or backslide on agreements or cheat our elderly and disadvantaged and choose US controlled nuclear weapons over a good health service and would sell our police and fire services just as soon as we would sell used car but we are british and we have won everywar we have been in and had the greatest fleet in the world two hundred years ago and if only these blood sucking Europeans who cannot really be our kith and kin can they after all they are foreigners not English men with only English blood in our veins (oh along with a bit of German French Scandi Dutch Italian and Spanish ). We have the best newspapers in the world too look at the lack of bias shown by the Express telegraph Sun and Daily Mail -they are never wrong and completely unbiased and patriotic to the core , Alright the Mail did support Hitler but that was long time ago)

No the day of glory is at hand (what ? thats the opening line of the Marseillaise , bloody cowards the french -where were they when we are running away at Dunkirk ? what do mean it was a battle lost -who the hell said that the traitor, Oh it was Churchill , well he must have been drunk at the time he did like snifter you know)

But we will thrive -we have no money, no influence, will run out of power in 15 years and no one will invest in building new power stations and our utilities and London buses are largely foreign owned as are our health care companies. But so what we will have taken back control and given it to people , nay giants of the politcal world like Liam Fox , and Michael Gove. Honest upstanding men of strong traditonal family values like Boris Johnson who was so so good as Foreign Sec and like the so aptly name Theresa May who despite being close to mentally ill struggles on to ensure brexit is achived fr all but specially for her Merchant banker hubby who stands to make millions from it . Men like Nigel farage , a currency broker , that ost revered of professions and Englsih to the core a man who will willing ly give up his travel rights just to he can wave that cherished Blue British passport , what on earth do you mean that his wife is German and so non of that will apply to him or his family -surely he puts the country first .

And thats what we have achieved in 33 months only WE could do that
Dear me, you should ring the Samaritans.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 17:35
  #6042 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
As you say, wishful thinking.
When they said the EU would be forced to roll over and give us a wonderful exit deal, they were wrong.
Now they say the EU will collapse. Wrong again.
I've never said the EU will collapse - I've said many times that I want to see it go back to being a simple Trade Area without the political bollocks that we now have.

In a simple litmus test, assuming the UK was NOT currently a member of the EU and another referendum was held about whether the UK should join the EU or not.

Given the mess that the UK appears to be in internally or should I say what everyone complains about - NHS, Education, Immigration, Knife Crime and others, all of which everyone claims is the result of lack of money - would you vote to join another Political Organisation, which currently has as many political and economic problems as the UK currently has.....and which will cost you about £15 billion per year....and you will have to accept and implement laws passed by that organisation which may not be beneficial to the UK....and will be required to incur additional defence expenditure to be part of that Organisation's self-styled Defence Force in addition to NATO....etc, etc, etc.....

You'd still go ahead and vote to join ??
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 19:21
  #6043 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
I've never said the EU will collapse - I've said many times that I want to see it go back to being a simple Trade Area without the political bollocks that we now have.

In a simple litmus test, assuming the UK was NOT currently a member of the EU and another referendum was held about whether the UK should join the EU or not.

Given the mess that the UK appears to be in internally or should I say what everyone complains about - NHS, Education, Immigration, Knife Crime and others, all of which everyone claims is the result of lack of money - would you vote to join another Political Organisation, which currently has as many political and economic problems as the UK currently has.....and which will cost you about £15 billion per year....and you will have to accept and implement laws passed by that organisation which may not be beneficial to the UK....and will be required to incur additional defence expenditure to be part of that Organisation's self-styled Defence Force in addition to NATO....etc, etc, etc.....

You'd still go ahead and vote to join ??
Why do you pose an entirely pointless question? Brexit is a diode - we won't be going back through that door after it has been shut behind us.

By the time we have come to our senses we'll be in such a state that they won't want to take us on again, with our constant bitching that we aren't being treated with the dignity due to such a superior nation.

If there was an opportunity to rejoin, I would have to consider what the conditions were at the time. Neither of us knows what those conditions might be as the EU continues to develop, and your suggestions are just speculation.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 19:24
  #6044 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
Simply because the EU drive towards locking all the separate countries into a fiscal union (the dollar is essentially what keeps the USA United) allowed wildly different levels of fiscal responsibility into a single currency, and blithely ignored their own internal rules to permit this.

'Ever greater union' is the aim and nothing must get in the way. The UK may be walking towards a cliff edge, the EU is manufacturing one of its own, and the cliff is much higher.
And what, in both principle and practicality, is fundamentally wrong with " ever greater union ", something I was, and will always remain in favour of for the UK within the EU. ?

If, however, you are referring purely to the EU as an entity then it makes sense to have greater integration given the competitive nature of other trading blocs......this nature being something "plucky little Britain " is about to encounter very soon with our stand alone stance, At present, despite a decline in the UK's global overall standing, politically and economically, we do actually have some attractions to offer with both our geographical location and our membership of the EU. We also enjoy the protection of the EU and the domestic benefits to the UK population thereafter.

The EU is not perfect, no developing bloc or entity ever is, but, it is progressive and that is an anathema to those in the UK whose preference has always been regression.

If you are under the illusion some of my recent posts have been flippant and irreverent, you are correct as some levity is always applicable in the circumstances the UK now finds itself in.

However, I am deadly serious when I say our departure is one of the most seminal moments in the UK's history and the consequences are going to have a very detrimental effect on the majority of the population, irrespective of age. So yes, I am concerned and even more so when the political structure of the UK is currently in such disarray that, once Brexit has occurred, the range of domestic policy issues currently being quietly ignored have the potential to be like a catastrophic failure in any context you care to name.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 19:36
  #6045 (permalink)  
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 20:00
  #6046 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Why do you pose an entirely pointless question? Brexit is a diode - we won't be going back through that door after it has been shut behind us.

By the time we have come to our senses we'll be in such a state that they won't want to take us on again, with our constant bitching that we aren't being treated with the dignity due to such a superior nation.

If there was an opportunity to rejoin, I would have to consider what the conditions were at the time. Neither of us knows what those conditions might be as the EU continues to develop, and your suggestions are just speculation.

No.....Not rejoin at some date in the future....

I mean now, this week....As if the big votes tomorrow and Wednesday were about joining, not leaving....You'd vote to join this week ??

As for rejoining, I'm sure the EU will have the UK back any time - they need your money, and they've run out of ' non-basketcase ' countries who won't need to suck on the teet to join....

Actually, if the UK is about to disintegrate and collapse after it leaves the EU as much as the good folk on here predict, you shouldn't worry too much as I'm sure the EU will provide the same levels of comfort and support that it provides to other no-hope countries.

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/development/index_en.

https://ec.europa.eu/europeaid/secto...rowth/trade_en
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 20:00
  #6047 (permalink)  
 
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From Private Eye

Consultancy EY earns millions from the government each month to big up post-Brexit Britain as a place to invest. So why’s it shifting its HQ to Brussels?
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 20:29
  #6048 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DroneDog View Post
From Private Eye

Consultancy EY earns millions from the government each month to big up post-Brexit Britain as a place to invest. So why’s it shifting its HQ to Brussels?


Fairly straightforward - you want to work in the EU, you have to be an EU national.

http://www.brusselstimes.com/eu-affa...on-to-brussels

Its purpose: to manage the operations of its European Union (EU) subsidiaries, and their 3,500 partners, report L'Echo and De Tijd on Tuesday.

The European parent company for the international audit and consultancy group, EY, is leaving London to set up in Brussels. The Belgian Institute of Company Auditors (the IRE) has thus received an approval application from EY, for a new legal management entity for all of the EY subsidiary companies based within the EU.

The decision follows the increasingly likely prospect of a “hard Brexit”. EY must have an audit licence within at least one member state, to be able to manage and supervise its various audit companies within the other EU member states. The European parent company, EU Europe LLP, currently operates using a British audit licence. If the United Kingdom leaves the EU, EY has to request such an approval in another EU member state.

Following an in-depth analysis, the group has chosen Brussels as the appropriate location for its umbrella entity going forward.



There's also the not unimportant reason that the EU gives far more business to EY than does the UK Governement.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...QTPpXIOvDJC6e6



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Old 11th Mar 2019, 20:45
  #6049 (permalink)  
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Pax

​​​​​
choose US controlled nuclear weapons
US produced missiles but not US controlled nuclear weapons, not in the last 30 years or more.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 20:45
  #6050 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
Dear me, you should ring the Samaritans.
Yeh but they would probably be engaged because of all the other people phoning them.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 21:10
  #6051 (permalink)  
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https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/0...-the-backstop/

There’s increasing chatter in Westminster about a possible Brexit breakthrough. The argument goes that if the Tusk / Juncker letter of the 14th of January was turned into a protocol—which would be legally binding, then there would be grounds for Geoffrey Cox to change his legal advice. Why, because the letter declares that:

‘The European Commission can also confirm our shared understanding that the Withdrawal Agreement and the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland:

Do not affect or supersede the provisions of the Good Friday or Belfast Agreement of 10 April 1998 in any way whatsoever; they do not alter in any way the arrangements under Strand II of the 1998 Agreement in particular, whereby areas of North-South cooperation in areas within their respective competences are matters for the Northern Ireland Executive and Government of Ireland to determine’
The theory goes that if the backstop were to become permanent, it would contradict the Good Friday Agreement as it would replace North / South cooperation with a UK / EU construct. So, the UK could use this protocol with the withdrawal agreement to justify quitting the backstop if it was clearly becoming permanent.

One QC who I have run the theory by says that this is a legally defensible argument. But politically, the question is whether the government wants to embrace this particular interpretation of the Good Friday Agreement. If it does, then the next question becomes whether Nigel Dodds — a lawyer by training — accepts it or not. If he does, then the DUP would be back on board and Theresa May might have a chance on Tuesday.

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Old 12th Mar 2019, 00:41
  #6052 (permalink)  
 
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The silence from "the usual suspects" is deafening.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 08:17
  #6053 (permalink)  
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 08:19
  #6054 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
The silence from "the usual suspects" is deafening.
The "silence " as you choose to describe it, may have something to do with the fact that, until the voting commences, nobody has any idea as to whether Treeza has actually produced anything tangible.....probably not. And if she has, expect the bribes offered to Labour MP's in socially and economically deprived areas of the UK, along with paper promises as to "workers rights " to vanish with immediate effect.

But, we await the front pages of certain rags jingoism as they inform their avid readers " Treeza--- Nations Heroine ! EU capitulates in face of stoic resistance ! " " National Day of Celebration to become law ! ".....and some pics of Treeza holding a shield, and sword with an old fashioned firemans helmet on her head. and, exclusively for Sun readers...... "Up EUrs EUnker !"

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 12th Mar 2019 at 09:56.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 08:38
  #6055 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
The silence from "the usual suspects" is deafening.
Presumably as one of those, I'm curious to understand what concessions you believe the PM won from Juncker?
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 09:29
  #6056 (permalink)  
 
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We are now at a crossroads; right up at the "stop" sign.

It sounds as though Mrs. May's "deal 1.1" will be narrowly voted down this evening; then in all probability there will be another vote, tomorrow, that will be passed saying we don't accept no deal. Jean-Claude Juncker said quite clearly yesterday evening that we have had a second chance (and come up with this appendix agreement) and there will be no "third chance".

So, parliament (presumably) doesn't want the deal, and doesn't want "no deal". So the only logical thing they must want is remain. They can't just vote that through as they (both major parties) committed to carrying through the result of the referendum so they must refer it to the people. If they don't then they have to accept either TM's deal, or no deal. There is no other choice. They have to get real and vote for something!
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 09:54
  #6057 (permalink)  
 
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Well on the basis that any deal at all is better than no deal, I hope it works.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 10:00
  #6058 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Well on the basis that any deal at all is better than no deal, I hope it works.
I agree, given that I really don't believe that MPs have the balls to vote for a new referendum (an extension to which the EU27 would probably give an Art.50 extension) they have to decide which, for them, is the "least worst option". In that there are more MPs (and peers) who if faced with that stark choice would reluctantly vote for her deal as that least worst option.

Then having voted for that the fun really starts, with the UK trying to get a trade deal and frictionless trade without rejoining, or joining a customs union. More attempts at having cake and eating it over the next 18 months.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 10:01
  #6059 (permalink)  
 
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You'd have to be looking the other way AND holding your nose then. The hype & spin on this set of proposals is so slight & the idea of a unilateral interpretation of a bilateral agreement is so oxymoronic & meaningless that you would in fact be tacitly agreeing to the original deal, the one that Parliament roundly booted out.

To quote someone or other, Nothing has changed, nothing has changed. Except we're a day closer to crystallising the abject failure of this government to govern in the interests of the people it supposedly represents.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 10:07
  #6060 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
You'd have to be looking the other way AND holding your nose then. The hype & spin on this set of proposals is so slight & the idea of a unilateral interpretation of a bilateral agreement is so oxymoronic & meaningless that you would in fact be tacitly agreeing to the original deal, the one that Parliament roundly booted out.

To quote someone or other, Nothing has changed, nothing has changed. Except we're a day closer to crystallising the abject failure of this government to govern in the interests of the people it supposedly represents.
That may well be the case, but what are the alternatives, given that MPs won't accept no deal. There isn't a "third way" of leaving the EU.
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