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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 2nd Mar 2019, 18:24
  #5601 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post

And today f course the pro Brexit papers start to soften us up for a rammed down the throat US trade agreement. US food standards are appalling -and the food often completely tasteless.

Who do you want setting food standards for your children , America wheres its solely about $$$$ or France and Italy where it is a religion. It certainly wont be the UK because we are too small to bother with
This general arc will be the legacy of Brexit. Leaving a trading bloc of 450m consumers is waving goodbye to serious clout around the boardroom table. The narrative of global Britain freeing itself from the shackles of a commie federalising bully was always bullshit & we're about to find out some home truths about what it is to be a small country that is too developed to be a serious contender in manufacturing, does not lead the world in technology & excels mostly in service industries.

Want a deal with Trump? Take the offer. Want to trade with Japan? Take the offer. Life is going to change, not for the better either.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 18:50
  #5602 (permalink)  
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Look forward to KoolAid, guaranteed no non-artificial ingredients.😁
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 21:32
  #5603 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Saying what? No deal, no pay?
Saying "we hereby revoke the notice given under A50".
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 22:09
  #5604 (permalink)  
 
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As far as US food standards are concerned, it stretches credulity somewhat to suggest that the most litigious nation on the planet is happily producing food that is harmful to eat. Few people will be unaware of the US obesity epidemic, but a balanced diet and a degree of self control goes a long way to managing this issue. I would be inclined to suggest that US food may be too nutritious and delicious, so much so that people find it difficult to resist eating it.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 23:44
  #5605 (permalink)  
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That's a complete and fairly abusive red herring.
You had a referendum. Your parliament had already voted both to hold a referendum and to uphold the result of that referendum. Britain's parliamentary democracy is in tatters, the very fundamental principle of trust between voter and parliamentarian teetering on the edge of annihilation and it will be destroyed by not implementing the result of a majority vote in parliament and the nation. That's all that's worth remembering about Britain and Brexit. You'll have to find a brand new principle of governing the nation because the old one will have been ridiculed and debased into worthlessness.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 23:58
  #5606 (permalink)  
 
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I do feel CC you're playing a character somewhere between Derek Nimmo & Warren Mitchell., set in aspic.

No one in their right mind could possibly consider this to still be a decent idea, thus they fall back onto the contract between parliament & electorate, acknowledging without actually acknowledging the poverty of the transaction. It's the least British quality I can imagine. No vision, no foresight, no sweep of history, just a tactical purchase.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 00:16
  #5607 (permalink)  
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Apart from the doom and the gloom, which reminds me of the ramblings Eeyore, I've yet to hear a cogent argument as to why it's a bad idea. That's not to say it isn't a bad idea though. As for British qualities, well yes, the very idea that you have to remain in the EU is an abnegation of the British qualities that have been admired and sometimes respected by generations of us heather foreigners..
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 00:20
  #5608 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
I've yet to listen to a cogent argument as to why it's a bad idea..
Fixed that for you, Nige.

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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 01:35
  #5609 (permalink)  
 
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Okay, let's see how this plays out as a cogent reason for Brexit.

Britain no longer presides over an empire, but national character and nostalgia being what they are, Britain entered the EEC with the idea of dominating trade in Europe and thereby gaining control over a new European trading bloc to take on the rest of the World. The argument given at the time was that European supply chains would be much shorter and more efficient than those around the colonial empire. The Germans and French had other ideas and resisted British attempts to control Europe. The British being British just cannot be part of any organisation without wanting to hold the ultimate reins of power, a hang over from our days of administering and empire. The way our parliament and civil service work is to govern from the top down, resist change, and generally ensure that the general populance know their place. That works on an isolated island but it does not fit European ideals.

Another fly in the ointment is that China has become the primary source of manufactured goods for the world. Those short supply chains no longer have any relevance when it comes to foreign trade. A constant flow of goods emerges from China by land, sea and air. Frequently such goods can be delivered in the UK to your doorstep more cheaply, and more quickly than ordering from the other end of the country. The same applies across Europe also. Typical delivery times are 24 hours by air, 10 days by train, and 21 days or less by container ship. That pretty much covers any product of any size or quantity anyone might order.

The best solution is that Britain withdraws from the EU to pursue its' own course. Becoming Switzerland-on-Sea with more than its' fair share of quaint and historical tourist attractions might not be such a bad thing. Another parallel with Switzerland is our secretive and popular banking system. As always, play to your advantages.

Sinking back into a somewhat isolated obscurity is going to be better in the long run than spending the next few decades fighting increasing European federalisation and subservience to Brussels. Being British we are not accustomed to taking orders from foreigners. EU membership, for Britain at least, is ultimately harmful and a threat to the stability of both the UK and the EU.

There will be, primarily financial, losses to both the UK and the EU as a result of Brexit, but those losses can and will be recouped in time. I strongly suspect that an arms length relationship with the EU will result in rather stronger and more harmonious relations than have previously and are currently the case. Britain may not dictate terms to the EU, but by the same token an isolationist UK will at least have the freedom to determine how it comducts its' own affairs with regard to trade with the EU and other countries globally.

As a single nation, Britain will probably not get better terms in trade negotiations than the EU, but the conditions of such trade can be arranged to suit our unique national interests rather than a one size fits all deal.

No deal Brexit is the right and only logical course of action for Britain.

*"Taking orders from foreigners" is used here as a demonstrative phrase and a way of illustrating the national psyche and should not be interpreted as in any way intended to be racist or a slur on any other nationality. Think along the lines of Warren Mitchell in the Love Thy Neighbour comedy.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 05:42
  #5610 (permalink)  
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" T minus 3 and counting.....no ignition and no main engine start " .......more like the Ariane launch and the controller who commented "we have an anomaly "..which was true, or more precisely several thousand anomalies as it cascaded across the jungle. about 5 secs after launch.

Back to why the cousins have no qualms about their food quality standards being exported to under developed countries ......
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...brexit-cartoon

Fascinating to read "Till Death us do part " getting a mention......as it was a parody of the bigots and racists in our society.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 3rd Mar 2019 at 06:19.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 06:53
  #5611 (permalink)  
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...-may-k58rkxbnb

Tory Brexiteers offer peace terms to Theresa May

Tory Brexiteers have delivered peace terms to Theresa May, outlining the price she must pay to secure their support for her Brexit deal in the crunch Commons showdown within days.

The European Research Group (ERG) of hardliners, led by Jacob Rees-Mogg, have drawn up “three tests” the government must meet if the prime minister hopes to win the vote due as early as this week. In a significant intervention, eight ERG lawyers, chaired by veteran Eurosceptic Sir Bill Cash, have drawn up a document spelling out their demands, the clearest sign yet that they are prepared to fall into line.

Geoffrey Cox, the attorney-general, is seeking a new deal that would make clear that the Northern Ireland backstop, which locks the UK into a customs union with the EU, is only temporary. In private talks with Cox the Brexiteers demanded a legally binding “mechanism” to escape the backstop, with a clear “exit route” and an unambiguous rewrite of the “language” in the government’s legal advice. Crucially, the ERG’s new red lines are not prescriptive about how this is to be achieved and give Cox considerable leeway to thrash out a deal. By outlining the price of their support, they hope to give him greater ammunition to win concessions from the EU.

The plan has been drawn up in conjunction with Nigel Dodds, the Westminster leader of the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP). If May can secure the backing of the DUP and ERG, the deal will go through. The document, seen by The Sunday Times, demands:

● A “clearly worded, legally binding, treaty-level clause which unambiguously overrides” the text of the withdrawal agreement

● Language that “must go beyond simply re-emphasising/re-interpreting the temporary nature of the backstop” and a change to Cox’s legal advice that it would “endure indefinitely”

● A “clear and unconditional route out of the backstop if trade talks fail”, which could mean “a time limit or a unilateral exit mechanism”.......


In an interview with The Sunday Times, Michael Tomlinson, one of the eight members of Cash’s committee, said the group needs to see “black and white” text in “good time” before a vote so they can deliver their verdict. But, in a boost for May, he made clear that the group does not want to dictate the exact mechanism. He said: “There is a spectrum and a range of options that the attorney-general has. I’m not going to say protocol good, codicil bad, letter very bad, because that would be prejudging it.”.........

Michel Barnier, the chief EU negotiator, claimed on Friday that no progress had been made in the talks with Cox. But in an interview with German newspaper Die Welt this weekend he said the EU was “ready to give more guarantees, confirmation, clarification that [the] backstop is only temporary”. This is expected to take the form of a “mutually agreed reservation to the withdrawal agreement”, deposited at the United Nations in New York to give it the status of an international treaty.

The second plan would be to provide more details on the functioning of article 20 of the Irish protocol in the withdrawal agreement, which allows either party to notify the other that the backstop is no longer needed. An arbitration process would be set up to police the deal.

Finally, the EU could also certify that one party to a treaty may terminate their agreement under the rules of the 1986 Vienna convention.........




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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 07:13
  #5612 (permalink)  
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All we need now is for the above armistice to be signed in a mock up of HS2 in the sidings at Crewe then..........
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 07:36
  #5613 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
That's a complete and fairly abusive red herring.
You had a referendum. Your parliament had already voted both to hold a referendum and to uphold the result of that referendum. Britain's parliamentary democracy is in tatters, the very fundamental principle of trust between voter and parliamentarian teetering on the edge of annihilation and it will be destroyed by not implementing the result of a majority vote in parliament and the nation. That's all that's worth remembering about Britain and Brexit..
Point of order (albeit pretty irrelevant given where we are today): In the case of the UK's EU referendum AFAIK there was no parliamentary vote to "uphold the result" ...If it had been deemed as being mandatory for Parliament to uphold the result then the UK's Electoral Commission would have been in a different position when it came investigating some of the allegations about funding of the campaigns and the behaviour of the parties involved...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8451601.html

You'll have to find a brand new principle of governing the nation because the old one will have been ridiculed and debased into worthlessness.
I agree, but that is not going to happen.

Last edited by wiggy; 3rd Mar 2019 at 07:59.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 07:41
  #5614 (permalink)  
 
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Mean while the perfect storm continues..

https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article189579919/Negative-Sparzinsen-Gibt-es-bald-eine-Euro-Parallelwaehrung.html
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 08:03
  #5615 (permalink)  
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(You'll have to find a brand new principle of governing the nation because the old one will have been ridiculed and debased into worthlessness.
I agree, but that is not going to happen.)

It will.
If Britain remains in the EU.
Once the EU has its own army.
Once Britain decides to secede again.

So by a rather clever extension and in keeping with the great European tradition of consecutively enumerated conflicts, I'd call this little shindig The First War of the British Secession.
Whistle Dixie or London Loony Tunes?
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 08:34
  #5616 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
US obesity epidemic, but a balanced diet and a degree of self control goes . . . I would be inclined to suggest that US food may be too nutritious and delicious, so much so that people find it difficult to resist eating it.
It may also be how they cook it as well as portion sizes.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 09:27
  #5617 (permalink)  
 
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And how often they eat... And they stick cheese on everything. Then their is the collosal quantity of full sugar soft drinks to accompany said meals.

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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 09:35
  #5618 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...-may-k58rkxbnb

Tory Brexiteers offer peace terms to Theresa May





I'd be interested in how framing a list of wholly unworkable demands, practically an ultimatum is framed as an olive branch. One can only surmise the Times is complicit with the ERG's ongoing efforts to manipulate the message presenting demands the EU would never accept as entirely reasonable to the public, delaying the inevitable realisation that acceding the the EU's terms is the only way or we crash out. Hang on, I think I've answered my own question. Still, at least I now know Tim Shipman is peeing in my pocket & telling me it's raining.

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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 09:43
  #5619 (permalink)  
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Dominic Grieve, the leader of the pro EU gang is a bi national, fluent French speaker who broadcasts on French radio, owns a small castle in France and is President of the Anglo French society. Sometimes I think that members of parliament should have to declare in a book of personal interests matters that might blight their voting patterns as well as the straightforward compendium of corruptions.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 09:48
  #5620 (permalink)  
 
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The EU can't loose control over the UK.

That German article I posted shows what deep poo they are in this summer.

Setting up a second currency because the have broken the first one.
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