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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 16th Feb 2019, 17:04
  #4761 (permalink)  
 
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The UK was the number one European power prior to entering the EEC/EU. Upon leaving the EU we will once again be the number one individual nation in Europe. That is nothing to do with faded memories of Empire and past glories, it is simple financial fact. That and the availability of a nuclear deterrent. France and Germany come close, but both are somewhat lacking in either nuclear weapons or financial muscle on world markets. The UK may not be a match for the combined might of the EU, but it is still big enough to stand alone.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 17:11
  #4762 (permalink)  
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Besides which, who needs anyone when El Trumpo is your battle ally.
My contribution to the exit war effort Will be to cancel An order for a GLC43 and, although with great reluctance given that itís an inferior product, order a Jeep instead.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 17:15
  #4763 (permalink)  
 
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Filler Dent
It would be good if politicians with agendas were struck off LEFT OR RIGHT ! Personally I believe it we would just be better if the country was just well managed. My late father used a saying, "if a flag is being waved a lot, look who is waving it, and ask why before you do anything". Time for bed after a long flight back, though on an aviation theme I got through Manchester very quickly this morning on my Swiss passport.
Cheers
Mr Mac
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 17:23
  #4764 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
Besides which, who needs anyone when El Trumpo is your battle ally.
My contribution to the exit war effort Will be to cancel An order for a GLC43 and, although with great reluctance given that itís an inferior product, order a Jeep instead.
Yeah, on that General Cheetah, I hate to shatter your illusions, but if you think the orange mango is coming to give us what we want, then you're either in your cups or more deluded than anyone I've ever met in all my days. Watch this & then try telling me that it's not nunc est bibendum.


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Old 16th Feb 2019, 17:24
  #4765 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Mac View Post
Sallyann1234
Just returned from a long trip through the Far East (Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan, Singapore, India) and the view I received from companies , individuals, government ministers was generally what the "F...K is the UK doing". More worryingly for UK based companies there was a fair bit of muttering of getting even with old colonial power, so I do not believe there will be a greeting with open arms post Brexit, if it happens. Indeed a Chinese trader I was talking to mentioned the "British opium wars" and an Indian the "Salt tax" all of which pre dates 1900, which I think is playing a very long game. I did point out that France and Germany were also colonial powers, and was politely told that they made things that they wanted, and were of superior quality.
My own company is no longer UK based, so we are not that exposed to what happens here, but as a citizen it is worrying to see people who appear intent on setting of to give the UK its own personalised recession, when businesses and their employees have just spent the time since 2008 digging themselves out of one recession, to have the extreme right of the Tory party grant them another one ! I used to be a Conservative supporter although on the left of that party but no more after this.
Regards
Mr Mac
Yes. The rest of the world know what rabid Brexiteers refuse to accept.

First Brexit, followed after three years of disruption and failure, by a Labour government. A double whammy.

Last edited by Sallyann1234; 16th Feb 2019 at 17:54.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 17:29
  #4766 (permalink)  
 
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The UK was the number one European power prior to entering the EEC/EU. Upon leaving the EU we will once again be the number one individual nation in Europe. That is nothing to do with faded memories of Empire and past glories, it is simple financial fact. That and the availability of a nuclear deterrent. France and Germany come close, but both are somewhat lacking in either nuclear weapons or financial muscle on world markets. The UK may not be a match for the combined might of the EU, but it is still big enough to stand alone
Doesn't France have nukes as well?? were we not known as the sick man of europe after devaluation of the pound in 1967 (before we joined the EEC)
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 17:52
  #4767 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
The UK was the number one European power prior to entering the EEC/EU. Upon leaving the EU we will once again be the number one individual nation in Europe. That is nothing to do with faded memories of Empire and past glories, it is simple financial fact. That and the availability of a nuclear deterrent. France and Germany come close, but both are somewhat lacking in either nuclear weapons or financial muscle on world markets. The UK may not be a match for the combined might of the EU, but it is still big enough to stand alone.
Financial muscle on world markets... that might be the biggest risk (the final arrangement and long term trade agreements between Europe and UK will only be worked out post-Brexit).

Not disputing your arguments, but aware that post-Brexit there's a huge risk that a sizeable portion of City of London's financial services sector may move to either Dublin, Paris or Frankfurt. Dublin has the advantage of being English speaking, Paris in the past couple of years has developed English-speaking international courts geared towards stealing some of the City of London's trade. Frankfurt is an attraction in that it has the infrastructure already in place for bankers and international trade- airport in perfect location to the City for a start.

UK's best/only option I think would be to set Corporation Tax at 5% or something similar as an incentive to keep the big business that's already there and to attract some of the big tech firms to come- Google, Amazon, Facebook etc. The ability and freedom to legislate in that way (to undercut the EU etc.) is one advantage for the UK to leave- it wouldn't have been allowed whilst being a member.

Other than that scenario... I can't see why large financial institutions wouldn't shift at least some of their departments to the EU to avoid tariffs etc. I.e. EU section of a business- move it to within the EU to avoid tariffs- makes sense.

Last edited by positiverate20; 16th Feb 2019 at 19:53.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 17:58
  #4768 (permalink)  
 
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But Brexiteers won't listen to anything that might harm their dream
Unfortunately they will be finding out that once you have jumped off the cliff it's irrelevant that you have closed your eyes and ears. The result at the bottom is just the same.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 18:23
  #4769 (permalink)  
 
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Sal, you persist in this perverse fantasy of a Labour Government. If A NoDeal happens they will split, if a deal happens they will split but a little less. The latest poll actually showed a swing of 1.4% away from Labour.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 18:35
  #4770 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Mac View Post
Sallyann1234
Just returned from a long trip through the Far East (Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan, Singapore, India) and the view I received from companies , individuals, government ministers was generally what the "F...K is the UK doing". More worryingly for UK based companies there was a fair bit of muttering of getting even with old colonial power, so I do not believe there will be a greeting with open arms post Brexit, if it happens. Indeed a Chinese trader I was talking to mentioned the "British opium wars" and an Indian the "Salt tax" all of which pre dates 1900, which I think is playing a very long game. I did point out that France and Germany were also colonial powers, and was politely told that they made things that they wanted, and were of superior quality.
My own company is no longer UK based, so we are not that exposed to what happens here, but as a citizen it is worrying to see people who appear intent on setting of to give the UK its own personalised recession, when businesses and their employees have just spent the time since 2008 digging themselves out of one recession, to have the extreme right of the Tory party grant them another one ! I used to be a Conservative supporter although on the left of that party but no more after this.
From what has been leaked, when the UK government showed up in Tokio fully expecting that the EU-Japan trade deal could in the shortest of time be copied and pasted into an UK-Japan trade deal, the Japanese very politely made it be known that there was no way the UK could reasonably expect to get the same deal as the EU and things needed to be negotiated one-by-one without haste. And off they went, poo-faced and tail between legs
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 18:40
  #4771 (permalink)  
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There is a sizeable chunk of Brexit people I know who would relish a Singapore style western haven for business, initiative and wealth. Setting aside that rather positive outlook, you have to balance such an economic creation so close to Europe in the context of the absolute terror into which that would throw the French and German central banks. The Italians and the Greeks would presumably be delighted.
Then too, there’s the slight problem that there’s no point in attracting wealth to your sugar spot unless you clean up some of the vermin already there. So you’d need a tough nuts policy on crime. Then too, you’d have to run a decently equipped central health system and to have a stable and intrnationally adaptable education curriculum staffed by multi lingual educationalists as opposed to amateurs from Hackney. None of this would or could become done over just a few years but surely it’s a dream that even he most unenterprising remainer migh find attractive?
So, I don’t know what a Brexiters dream is. I know that Remainers appear quite negative somtimes although I wouldn’t dream of calling them rubbish quite all of the time. I do know though, that if I were crossing Antarctica with Shackleton, I’d rather die in the cold with a lustybrexit lass. Shackleons mission, poor fellow, was doomed from the start, in large part because, unlike Amundsen, he had no Adolf LindstrÝm in his party.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 18:56
  #4772 (permalink)  
 
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As this is an aviation forum - Flybmi has collapsed and given this information:
:
The airline has faced several difficulties, including recent spikes in fuel and carbon costs, the latter arising from the EU’s recent decision to exclude UK airlines from full participation in the Emissions Trading Scheme. These issues have undermined efforts to move the airline into profit. Current trading and future prospects have also been seriously affected by the uncertainty created by the Brexit process, which has led to our inability to secure valuable flying contracts in Europe and lack of confidence around bmi’s ability to continue flying between destinations in Europe.
And as we are just at it, Blue air axing its LPL base:

Brexit uncertainty has forced a European airline to cancel flights to the UK, leaving British holidaymakers stranded. Romania’s Blue Air, which links several UK cities to destinations across Europe, reportedly informed passengers hoping to depart from Liverpool that their flights were cancelled.

A spokesperson for the city’s John Lennon Airport said “the current Brexit impasse" meant the carrier had been "unable to receive the necessary clarity” to offer the flights. Dozens of passengers expecting to fly to Rome and Alicante complained their flights with Blue Air had been cancelled on Wednesday night but tickets were still available to buy online.

While Blue Air will continue to operate flights between the two countries, services from the UK to any other country could be affected if the UK leaves the EU without a continuation of current EU legislation.

Last edited by virginblue; 16th Feb 2019 at 19:07.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 19:04
  #4773 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
The UK was the number one European power prior to entering the EEC/EU. Upon leaving the EU we will once again be the number one individual nation in Europe. That is nothing to do with faded memories of Empire and past glories, it is simple financial fact. That and the availability of a nuclear deterrent. France and Germany come close, but both are somewhat lacking in either nuclear weapons or financial muscle on world markets. The UK may not be a match for the combined might of the EU, but it is still big enough to stand alone.
I have never read such nonsense in my life. It is very far from being a financial fact. And now you are talking about nuclear weapons? Do you propose that the UK could attack Germany or some other EU country? Apart from the fact that France has about twice the number of active warheads, they do not have America holding the keys! "Big enough to stand alone" - you must be insane. This isn't a school playground, or hadn't you noticed?

Mac


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Old 16th Feb 2019, 19:05
  #4774 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Sal, you persist in this perverse fantasy of a Labour Government. If A NoDeal happens they will split, if a deal happens they will split but a little less. The latest poll actually showed a swing of 1.4% away from Labour.
I'm not talking about an immediate election. I'm talking about the next scheduled election in 2022 by which time there will have been three years of social disruption and people will be voting for something, anything different.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 19:08
  #4775 (permalink)  
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A £2.2 million offer from Connect for the airline sounds a little as dodgy as Maydeal. It’s no surprise if the Flybe shareholders rejected that, many of them are probably worth more than that themselves anyway. One really must look at these things in their proper context. Bandwagons went out of fashion in England in around 1951 when the monster was born as the EEC at the Treaty of Paris.

(HintEC=European Economic Community. The clue is in the word economic. End hint.)
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 19:11
  #4776 (permalink)  
 
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Itís no surprise if the Flybe shareholders rejected that
They have been treated pretty appallingly, if I were one I'd be bloody furious as to how things have progressed, given they have almost been blackmailed.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 19:20
  #4777 (permalink)  

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"........social disruption and people will be voting for something, anything different. "

How about Eric Trump? Or that nasty little bit of Nazi shite?

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Old 16th Feb 2019, 20:10
  #4778 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
The UK was the number one European power prior to entering the EEC/EU. Upon leaving the EU we will once again be the number one individual nation in Europe. That is nothing to do with faded memories of Empire and past glories, it is simple financial fact. That and the availability of a nuclear deterrent. France and Germany come close, but both are somewhat lacking in either nuclear weapons or financial muscle on world markets. The UK may not be a match for the combined might of the EU, but it is still big enough to stand alone.
I think that you will find that France does possess nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 20:14
  #4779 (permalink)  
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Yes indeed, during the Falklands War, the French, or so it is rumoured, gave the Argentines rather more than just a little help with the Exocet guidance system.

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Old 16th Feb 2019, 20:23
  #4780 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mac the Knife View Post
I have never read such nonsense in my life. It is very far from being a financial fact. And now you are talking about nuclear weapons? Do you propose that the UK could attack Germany or some other EU country? Apart from the fact that France has about twice the number of active warheads, they do not have America holding the keys! "Big enough to stand alone" - you must be insane. This isn't a school playground, or hadn't you noticed?

Mac
There appears to be a misconception that the United States holds the 'keys' to the British nuclear deterrent. It does not. The missile bodies are maintained in the U.S. because British workers shot themselves in the foot by trying to cause a break in the continuous deterrent patrols by striking. They failed. The warheads themselves are purely British.
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