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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 12th Feb 2019, 13:16
  #4501 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Grayling paid consultants £800,000 for advice
And then told Parliament that the whole fiasco hadnít cost the taxpayers a penny!
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 13:17
  #4502 (permalink)  
 
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GE will take 6 weeks from the first vote of no confidence. And it doesn't have to go to the house of Lords.

A referendum first of all has to go through the Commons then the lords and back to the commons again. Then a load of hot air with committees to decide on the question.
Then it goes to the Electoral Commission to have its say on the question. This takes 12 weeks. If its unacceptable and goes back multiple by 12 weeks per trip.
The EC wants 6 months to set things up from the day the legislation is passed.
Then there is the 10 week campaign period.

All facts from PPERA and the EC.

45 days to go and your insults are still having zero effect stopping the clock.

remainers aren't going to shut up after March either
Personally I am not expecting them to either. Some of them will go to their graves complaining about it all.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 13:22
  #4503 (permalink)  
 
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Re the fruit & veg comments above; one thing that will not be missed is Dutch tomatoes. The most pointless and tasteless vegetable (OK, for the pedants, fruit) ever to be inflicted on humans!
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 13:23
  #4504 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Farage pops up like a floater again;
https://www.thebrexitparty.org/?fbcl...y6LUgK9LiwGHfk
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 13:31
  #4505 (permalink)  
 
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Personally I am not expecting them to either. Some of them will go to their graves complaining about it all.
They won't because they will likely have plenty to complain about, and if things go really badly, I'm not at all sure how some hotheads might react to vocal Brexiteers in their neighbourhoods. I suspect that's one of the reasons the military is being put on standby. The regular police, given that they can't apparently deal with people's every day concerns on crime today, won't have the resources or manpower to control civil unrest, were it to raise it's ugly head.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 13:36
  #4506 (permalink)  
 
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Could happen if Brexit gets cancelled as well....

So no win really.

Even if its a rip roaring success they are going to whinge/moan and complain about it and how it happened and how unfair it all was.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 13:50
  #4507 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
Could happen if Brexit gets cancelled as well....

So no win really.

Even if its a rip roaring success they are going to whinge/moan and complain about it and how it happened and how unfair it all was.
Agreed, and I don't believe that at this late stage it will be cancelled. if Brexit turns out in the short to medium term to be such a success, then I believe the clamour to rejoin, and any unpleasantness will diminish rapidly. However I don't believe that will happen within 5-10 years, and as such I do fear for the UK's social, not to mention political cohesion.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 13:55
  #4508 (permalink)  
 
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It won't. There is no upside to Brexit. The threats perceived by leavers are chimeras but what's done is done.


Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post

45 days to go and your insults are still having zero effect stopping the clock.
Not that you were insulted but as an aside & an insight, I'd be curious to learn how, since you keep saying it, anything I say here can possibly influence anything happening in Westminster, Brussels or even Trumpton for that matter.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 14:01
  #4509 (permalink)  
 
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Well we shall just have to wait and see on that score.

Re-join in the short/medium term is likely not an option if the remains predictions are correct. The economy won't pass the joining tests for a start. Then to re-join it means dumping the pound and it will be vastly more expensive.

Plus they are already sick fed up of the UK. Even if there was a ref and it came out that people did want to re-join. The EU by that point, if it still exists will have just sorted out the UK leaving. It will be middle finger and sex and travel.

If the remain economic works of fiction do turn out incorrect like all the other predictions on that score as you say nobody will be interested in re-joining.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 14:03
  #4510 (permalink)  
 
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Feel free to answer the question whenever you're ready...
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 14:16
  #4511 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
Well we shall just have to wait and see on that score.

Re-join in the short/medium term is likely not an option if the remains predictions are correct. The economy won't pass the joining tests for a start. Then to re-join it means dumping the pound and it will be vastly more expensive.

Plus they are already sick fed up of the UK. Even if there was a ref and it came out that people did want to re-join. The EU by that point, if it still exists will have just sorted out the UK leaving. It will be middle finger and sex and travel.

If the remain economic works of fiction do turn out incorrect like all the other predictions on that score as you say nobody will be interested in re-joining.
I'm really starting to get concerned - I can again concur with some of what you are saying. We have a present effectively got our cake and are eating it; if we apply to rejoin the EU will nail down conditions that ensure we are next time a full member, without the raft of opt outs and rebates that we currently enjoy. That assumes the EU would want us back, which aside of economic considerations, if I were them, I wouldn't.

How ever bad our economy is post Brexit it's unlikely to be worse than that of say, Croatia when they joined, or Romania, and it could be that it becomes economically vital that we get back in, and that the public would back rejoining under new conditions as the "least worst option" Schengen, Euro and all. For the majority, it is, as it always is, "the economy, stupid!"

1 couple of things I don't agree with. First, in the real world it is becoming obvious to all but the blind and deaf that no deal will be an unmitigated disaster, for jobs and the economy, and therefore by implication the public finances, so the whole question of rejoining is bound to be a live one for up to a decade, minimum. Second, the EU won't be imploding any time soon.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 14:22
  #4512 (permalink)  
 
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We are just going to have to wait and see on the economic front. Its all opinion just now.

If I was them I wouldn't want the UK back either even if it was a 80/20 re-join and ditch the pound.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 15:54
  #4513 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Except that under your 1, everything has to and from the EU has to be cleared through customs.
I think you are nearer to my question than PP.

My point is that we do not have the mechanisms in place on both sides to implement customs controls in and out on 30 March.

Either everything stops, or at least slows to the trickle predicted, or pragmatism rules and goods continue to flow. In case 2, stop or trickle, how long before the infrastructure is in place on both sides.

PP, I am not blaming the EU but pointing out for every import there is a corresponding export.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 15:59
  #4514 (permalink)  
 
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Meanwhile, in the organisation that has rigid rules that cannot be broken, the EU Ombudsman has delivered the final verdict on the appointment of Juncker’s “monster”Martin Selmayr to the top job in the European Commission, concluding that “Selmayr’s appointment did not follow EU law, in letter or spirit, and did not follow the Commission’s own rules”.

The Ombudsman “identified four instances of maladministration” in the handling of Selmayr’s appointment as Secretary-General and described the Juncker Commission’s failure to follow official recommendations on opening up the appointment process as “highly regrettable”, adding that “the Ombudsman looks forward to its implementation by the next Commission”.

Last December the European Parliament passed a resolution calling for him to quit. Naturally Selmayr has no desire to give up his corruptly obtained post and has ignored them.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 16:03
  #4515 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Sainsbury are currently selling Kent grown pears that have somehow been stored through the winter.
This is variety dependent. As I am sure you know, some varieties of pears have virtually no shelf life. One reason why much local produce in continental markets is so much tastier than the transportable fruit, such as Spanish strawberries.

Meeting internal demand through UK production is not a given as many farms have switched to industrial production of oil seed rape, flax, and biomass fuels, bird seed and lawn grass even.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 16:09
  #4516 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
Last December the European Parliament passed a resolution calling for him to quit. Naturally Selmayr has no desire to give up his corruptly obtained post and has ignored them.
He will be out of job in 2019 anyway when Juncker and his Comission will be replaced by a successor.

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Old 12th Feb 2019, 16:14
  #4517 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
You appear to fundamentally misunderstand your own question.

. . .


Why you continually point the finger at Brussels is highly instructive of a mindset completely & irreversibly closed to fundamental truths.

There is no both sides. You don't understand this.
Some times you have a valid point and . . .

How can you say there are no both sides? There weren't, now there are - us and them - UK and EU.

Why do you think I am continually points the finger at Brussels. Please quote just one thing I said that blames Brussels.

Fundamental truths? There are no fundamental truths. There are fundamental positions but they are not immutable.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 16:24
  #4518 (permalink)  
 
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The next head of the EC could be just as bad as the current one. Barnier I think is going for it but if the UK manages to escape Scot free then he might have issues.

It might also be the case that there is such a mess to sort out that the sensible good people won't want to touch it.

Suspect it might go to a French person and the European bank to a German.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 17:08
  #4519 (permalink)  
 
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If being in the EU is so great, why is it necessary for the UK have so many opt outs, exemptions, and special arrangements?

EU moves towards creating a federal Europe with unified conditions, zero exemptions and a single currency precipitated the Brexit debate. The UK was seeing the opt out provisions and rebates being eroded step by step to the point where a decision needed to be taken as to whether continued membership of the EU was actually in the UK national interest in the long term. Such a decision is effectively irrevokable, so the question was posed in a national referendum.

A clear decision and a mandate for the government to organise leaving the EU resulted. Whatever the merits or otherwise of the decision to leave, a majority of 1.7 million votes in favour of leaving the EU is a conclusive result. Quoting percentage figures of 48% versus 52% in favour of leaving as justifying a challenge to the decision is misleading and just plain wrong.

As was clearly stated and shown in the videos linked to a previous post above, the referendum was to either remain in the EU, or to leave the EU entirely. There was no discussion about partial membership or remaining in a,customs,union with freedom of movement. The question posed was in or out. As a nation, we collectively and absolutely conclusively decided to leave. Hard Brexit is the people's choice.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 17:20
  #4520 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post

As was clearly stated and shown in the videos linked to a previous post a the referendum was to either remain in the EU, or to leave the EU entirely. There was no discussion about partial membership or remaining in a,customs,union with freedom of movement. The question posed was in or out. As a nation, we collectively and absolutely conclusively decided to leave. Hard Brexit is the people's choice.
You are right that the question asked on the ballot paper was a binary stay or leave, but to say that there was no discussion of many of remaining in the likes of a customs union or the single market is attempting to rewrite history.

https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was...on-referendum/
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