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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 8th Feb 2019, 11:54
  #4281 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
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I did find it strange that there was no wall anywhere between Dublin and Belfast, but still walls within Belfast.
There is never going to be a non-violent resolution to Ireland. Brexit might just start it off sooner, that's all.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 12:08
  #4282 (permalink)  
 
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Belfast isn't NI.

And yes I was there a few weeks ago and very nice the centre is these days. The estates still have bullet holes in the brickwork.

Similarly Glasgow has been tarted up nicely as well over the same period.

The people are still the same which was always the problem.

Still punishment beatings, still knee cappings going on, still major issues with drugs and prostitution.

I worked in Derry BTW it was done up a bit last time I was there. But Belfast has had the bulk of the cash thrown at it.

Doesn't matter what happens its not going to change things there. They haven't had a assembly sitting since 2017 and I can't see it sitting any time soon.

Only thing we can wait for is the demographics to change which should be in 10 but more likely 15 years when they could hold a ref and get a United Ireland. But even then that won't be it finished with.

I hope to see a United Ireland in my life time.

I agree Sally, although its fundamentally changed since before the GFA, they just don't have access to the same amounts of cash and weapons these days from across the pond.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 12:19
  #4283 (permalink)  
 
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A referendum is inevitable. But the 'loyalists' will not accept the result.
"NO..SURRENDERRR..!"
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 12:20
  #4284 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I think it's pretty clear by now that the rabid brexiteers are not in the slightest bit interested in any consequences, they simply want Brexit for itself. After the event they will just disappear.
As will the EU right up its own ***! Pity about the people's of Germany, France and to a lesser extent Spain who will no doubt be fleeced by the block as it splits up in it's death throes.

And it all didn't need to happen.

Now that's irony.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 12:22
  #4285 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
G0ULI,

ER, so just how exactly does your statement..

​​​​​​"The UK is happy to leave the border open from their side."

..align with the typical Brexiteer shout of "take back control of our borders!?

So much of Brexit has revolved around immigration and taking back control. It is the height of hypocrisy to think that you can do that with your one and only land border with another nation being totally open, and that nation being an EU member at that.

Total hypocrisy!
lol its called pragmatism.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 12:39
  #4286 (permalink)  
 
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“A referendum is inevitable “. Didn’t we have one?
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 12:45
  #4287 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
“A referendum is inevitable “. Didn’t we have one?
Read the previous post to which I was replying. This thread is not exclusively about Brexit.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 12:46
  #4288 (permalink)  
 
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A referendum is inevitable. But the 'loyalists' will not accept the result
Yep, and I really wouldn't wish them on Eire. They are both as bad as each other. Realistically there were under 500 active players both sides at the height of it. A whole load of pain and suffering because of them.

it was a multi million pound business, it had the frontage of terrorism but realistically it was more like mob gangster rackets by both sides. Currently they have cut out most of the terrorism and just stick to the gangster antics.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 13:10
  #4289 (permalink)  
 
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Of course there will be a border between Northern Ireland and Eire. They are two different countries with different legislatures and government. There are many similar borders scattered all across the EU and Europe. Switzerland is not a member of the EU and yet traffic flows freely from France and Germany through Switzerland to Italy. It is up to individual nations as to how porous they want to make their border. The UK has historically allowed citizens of Eire to travel freely and live and work within the UK and essentially the same arrangements work the other way too.

The point is that neither the UK nor Eire are particularly interested in instituting a hard border with controlled and limited access points and everyone and everything checked before being allowed to cross. That is a policy that is seemingly being dictated by the EU against the wishes of the UK and Eire.

We have a situation where two seemingly incompatible sets of interests are at loggerheads. The EU is keen to protect its' own interests, however this runs directly against a status quo that has existed for decades before the EEC and EU were dreamed of. Naturally there have to be some controls or there wouldn't be a border in the first place. Where such controls are situated and how they are implemented are matters that are quite capable of being negotiated between the UK and Eire without the EU sticking its' oar in. We are both off shore nations in relation to the rest of the EU who share a common border. That makes both countries a special case.

Then there are the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands who are both independent states within the UK. I don't see anyone complaining about the border controls when travelling to either of these places, why should Eire be any different?

A solution will be found but the EU will make matters as difficult as possible in their plan to exact vengence on the UK for leaving their corrupt and cosy organisation.

As for the UK remaing in a customs union with the rest of the EU, that would require acquiescing to the supremacy of the ECJ in determing the outcome of any disputes arising. In essence, the EU would be setting the terms of trade. That is and will remain completely unacceptable.

No negotiation is possible while we are still members of the EU. Hard Brexit and then we start talking. It is the only way and the EU made that very clear right from the start, two and a half years ago. That course of action represents a risk or economic damage to both the EU and the UK but when actual money is at stake rather than political principles, pragmatism usually rules the day. We shall see in 49 days.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 13:30
  #4290 (permalink)  
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“Dear Lord, we pray for a united Ireland...... just not yet”.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 13:48
  #4291 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by weemonkey View Post
As will the EU right up its own ***! Pity about the people's of Germany, France and to a lesser extent Spain who will no doubt be fleeced by the block as it splits up in it's death throes.

And it all didn't need to happen.

Now that's irony.
The people you really need to feel sorry for are the British who are really going to suffer, albeit we will have "taken back control".

I know that you are looking forward gleefully to the demise of the EU, but I doubt you will see it in your lifetime, and certainly not in mine. The demise / fragmentation of the UK I fear is likely within the next 20 years, which (I hope) will be within both our lifetimes.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 13:55
  #4292 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
The people you really need to feel sorry for are the British who are really going to suffer, albeit we will have "taken back control".

I know that you are looking forward gleefully to the demise of the EU, but I doubt you will see it in your lifetime, and certainly not in mine. The demise / fragmentation of the UK I fear is likely within the next 20 years, which (I hope) will be within both our lifetimes.
As you say, it's interesting that some are desperately hoping for failure in other countries, whilst cheerfully awaiting disaster in their own.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 14:26
  #4293 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder, with the benefit of hindsight, how many leavers would be willing to acknowledge the EU isn't the font of all evil but a reasonable attempt at drawing Europe together in the aftermath of two devastating wars. That the reality of the past ten years here is a global financial crash with its roots in the USA that led us to the edge of financial collapse, a decade of austerity in which libraries closed, GP budgets were slashed, the Police were eviscerated and all the rest of it & in that context, it isn't in fact hordes of immigrants who took all the houses & sucked the NHS dry but a succession of Governments cutting the purse strings. So that when the opportunity came to give the establishment a kicking, egged on by some genuinely terrible politicians, they took it with both hands.

Edit: Honest leavers, assuming that isn't a contradiction in terms.

Last edited by Parapunter; 8th Feb 2019 at 14:50.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 14:27
  #4294 (permalink)  
 
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The last thing Eire wants is to be responsible for law and order on the Six Counties.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 14:44
  #4295 (permalink)  
 
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Not many Para.

And your being suckered into believing that everyone who wants to leave has hatred and racist views. can't we just not want to be involved in the EU fundamentally?

They could have done that with the common market and standards without all the federal Europe nonsense. If they had stuck to that the ref would never have happened.

In fact you will get more believing, falsely I might add, that the Germany lost the war to take control over the whole of Europe and the Eu is just the next attempt.

You can look for all the excuses you like, Brits are just not suited to being part of the EU just now or I might add for more than a few generations.

Its not the British who I will feel sorry for. Its the countries in the other states who are going to get shafted by this all and had zero input to the ref and zero input to the negotiations as well.

Last edited by tescoapp; 8th Feb 2019 at 14:59.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 14:48
  #4296 (permalink)  
 
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Parapunter, you really must stop repeating mindlessly Socialist Worker mantras, and look at real inflation adjusted figures for Government spending.. On the NHS, for instance, the lowest increase in percentage spending for the past 50 years was during Harold Wilson's first spell as PM. Every Conservative administration has increased year-on-year spending more. Cuts?
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 14:49
  #4297 (permalink)  
 
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I've never read Socialist worker in my life. Try again. And anyway, you'd have to be monumentally dishonest to suggest the public finances haven't been decimated in the past decade. Unbelievable.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 14:56
  #4298 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
“Dear Lord, we pray for a united Ireland...... just not yet”.
Why do WE?
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 15:33
  #4299 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Unbelievable.
quoted for posterity
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 15:35
  #4300 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I wonder which will happen first - Brexit, or this thread being closed like the last two.
Well you keep repeating that, if enough quote you...

anyway how about talking about something really important for a change?

Op GRAPPLE​​​​​​
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