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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 1st Nov 2018, 07:30
  #21 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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Go with Nokes

https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/l...me-crimewatch/

POLITICO:

”......The Home Office last night issued a “clarification” following Immigration Minister Caroline Nokes’ face palm appearance at the Commons home affairs committee on Tuesday. To the surprise of absolutely no one, it now looks like Nokes was completely wrong when she announced U.K. employers would somehow be expected to immediately distinguish between EU workers who had been living here before Brexit day, and EU workers who had arrived after, if Britain leaves Europe without a deal.

In a clarification issued last night to citizens’ pressure group The3Million. the Home Office said: “EU citizens will continue to be able to evidence their right to work by showing a passport or national identity card. Employers will not be expected to differentiate between resident EU citizens and those arriving after exit.”

Oops: This, of course, is precisely the opposite of what Nokes told committee Chairwoman Yvette Cooper on Tuesday. “If somebody hasn’t been here prior to the end of March next year, employers will have to make sure they go through adequately rigorous checks to evidence somebody’s right to work,” Nokes said confidently. However, when pressed on exactly how employers could be expected to make such checks, Nokes just waffled — and then said it “might be something I have to write to the committee about.” Which is ministerial code for “I have absolutely no idea.”

Reminder: Nokes is literally the minister in charge of immigration.

Also reminder: The last time a senior minister got it so hopelessly wrong before the home affairs committee, she had to resign. Perhaps Nokes should have asked Amber Rudd for a few tips before turning up........

And there’s more: At almost exactly the same time as the Home Office issued its statement last night, Home Secretary Sajid Javid was telling ITV’s Peston show that the problem will be solved via a “sensible transition period” for EU citizens in a no-deal scenario. “We’ve just got to be practical,” Javid said. “If there was a no-deal, we won’t be able to immediately distinguish between those Europeans that were already here before March 29, and those who came after — and therefore as a result I wouldn’t expect employers to do anything different than they do today … There will need to be some kind of sensible transition period. I mean, these are the kinds of things I’ve been working on for months and months.”

Oops: This, of course, is precisely the opposite of what the Home Office’s second permanent secretary, Shona Dunn, told committee Chairwoman Yvette Cooper on Tuesday. “If [no-deal] were the case, the prime minister has been very clear that she would want free movement turned off at that point in time,” Dunn said confidently. “So it would be our intention to have it done at that point in time. There will be a number of bits of secondary legislation, I would imagine.”

Reminder: Dunn is literally the civil servant in charge of immigration.

Also reminder: Britain is leaving the EU in less than five months. It would be great if these people had something approaching a coherent plan.







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Old 1st Nov 2018, 08:08
  #22 (permalink)  
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Now now ORAC, picky picky, these are just trifling details.

😂
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 08:42
  #23 (permalink)  
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PN,

If you follow the POLITICO link and read furyervdown concerning the EU Brexit negotiations it contains some interesting dichotomies. The UK press is full of the deal nearly bein* done on the financial sector etc etc. But the sticking point remains the “backstop to the backstop” overbthe airish border.

I suspect nothing has changed since POLITICO reported about 2 months ago that a behind the scene agreements had been made to help TM get a deal through parliament. The deal being that there would lots of apparent arguments by the EU before they appear to cave in and give the UK all these types of concessions - as long as the UK accepts the “never to be used” backstop to the backstop, However, the backstop will be in the legally binding withdrawal agreement - and everything else will be in the non-binding political agreement, subject to negotiation and withdrawal in later talks on the future relationship.

That might have worked were it not for Geoffrey Cox, the Attorney General, who last month explained the exact legal position to the Cabinet, as a result if which the majority insisted on a an equally detailed legal explanation of the finally agreed deal.

Frankly, the6 can get 99.99% agreed, but TM is now in the political position that no future EU promises will get a legally binding backstop, or backstop to the backstop, through either Cabinet or a vote in the HoC.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 12:11
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Just as an aside, I managed to access the original thread and have just posted this suggestion there, which refers to the current "last page" of the original thread, which isn't where the "last page" link directs to:

"The problem may be associated with the "last page" not actually pointing to the proper last page, together with what looks to be loads of empty page references extending way beyond the real last page. I played around manually editing the URL for this thread many times, and eventually landed on this page using this edited URL: UK politics - Hamsterwheel (which points to page number 542).

The "last page" URL seems to be: UK politics - Hamsterwheel which points to a page (number 560) which doesn't exist, and presumably something then picks up this incorrect page address and tried to redirect it to the true one, with that process falling over for quite a lot of users for some unknown reason.

I would support the view that if this thread can't be fixed so that it works for everyone, the simplest solution would seem to be to lock it and let the Mk2 thread take over, as at least that does seem to work reliably. "
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 12:21
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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With five months to go and not a single trade deal struck-no surprise there with Liam Fox in charge- we now have the special relationship kicking in, firstly on trashing our food standards so we can buy adulterated GM modified poisonous US food , and today threats over our potential tax regime (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46050724). this of course is the reality of taking back control. it isnt Brussels where we are strong and represented who will impact our country but the Great Satan itself (funny I used to laugh at the Iranians over that but not any more) who will literately just tell us what to do. we will be lucky to be the USA's And of course we want Apple to do a software mod so we can launch a sensible immigration App and they just stick two fingers up at out Government hamster let alone its poodle the way Trump sees the world.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 12:59
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
With five months to go and not a single trade deal struck-no surprise there with Liam Fox in charge....
Or perhaps more to the point, not surprising when EU membership means we're not allowed to do so......
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 13:15
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
With five months to go and not a single trade deal struck-no surprise there with Liam Fox in charge- we now have the special relationship kicking in, firstly on trashing our food standards so we can buy adulterated GM modified poisonous US food , and today threats over our potential tax regime (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46050724). this of course is the reality of taking back control. it isnt Brussels where we are strong and represented who will impact our country but the Great Satan itself (funny I used to laugh at the Iranians over that but not any more) who will literately just tell us what to do. we will be lucky to be the USA's And of course we want Apple to do a software mod so we can launch a sensible immigration App and they just stick two fingers up at out Government hamster let alone its poodle the way Trump sees the world.
You are absolutely correct and wholly wasting your time. This catastroshambles has become a Jim Jones cult for it's adherents. No amount of logic, reasoning or facts can stand in the way of what is now a wholly transactional arrangement.

It's all about getting the thing over the line now, which they will do, I have no doubt & so it will be that those who were always likely to be least affected & most protected from this & by that I mean those baby boomers who benefited from decades of house price growth, increasing employment rights & protections, huge strides in social mobility & final salary pensions whom are now for the most part retired & living in comparative comfort will be judged as the generation who ate their children. Who presided over the worst diminution of rights since the war, who tipped their children's futures into the ditch because they fell for a pack of Chimeric nonsense put about by a bunch of public school educated careerists & disaster capitalists preying on genuine fears & concerns with simplistic answers. Can't get a GP appointment? It's your Romanians did that, Sir, best rise up against the elites...

And how they lapped it up for decades down at the Red Lion in Dunny on the Wold, population two hundred, surnames: four.


But to business, if anyone here thinks the UK can untangle forty years of aquis & interwoven legislation AND improve more than 750 agreements covering everything from trade to isotopes to customs checks AND ratify them in the next five months, then I have a bridge you may be interested in buying. But on the bright side, there's all that control & sovereignty that has so impinged on your daily lives you get back. Not to mention blue passports (Made in France) and a 50p coin & the likes of Andrew Bridgen with his detailed knowledge of how easy it is for all English people to obtain an Irish passport.

Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Or perhaps more to the point, not surprising when EU membership means we're not allowed to do so......
*Puts reading glasses on, shakes head after recalling Davis' & Fox's pronouncements in 2016. German cars, easiest deals in history etc. etc.*

You've been led down the garden path by people about whom one should think twice about buying a second hand car from, three of whom have just been referred to the NCA because in all likelihood, their Brexit campaign was financed by Russia & I don't see one single Quitler ever wondering about the motivations behind that & for shame.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 14:04
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Of course it's all the EU's fault.
They wanted us to leave, didn't they.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 16:29
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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You've been led down the garden path by people about whom one should think twice about buying a second hand car from, three of whom have just been referred to the NCA because in all likelihood, their Brexit campaign was financed by Russia & I don't see one single Quitler ever wondering about the motivations behind that & for shame.
Aaron Banks and his sidekick are of course innocent until proven guilty. However if either or both of them are charged and convicted where would that leave the referendum of 2016? It would leave it totally discredited; however since by the time we get that far the UK will have left, or at least by on the transition exit road, it's hard to see what anyone could do about it then.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 16:33
  #30 (permalink)  
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ORAC, I was laughing at 'what the major really meant' toing and frowing.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 16:47
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=I mean those baby boomers who benefited from decades of house price growth, increasing employment rights & protections, huge strides in social mobility & final salary pensions whom are now for the most part retired & living in comparative comfort will be judged as the generation who ate their children.[/QUOTE]

I hate to spoil a good rant about us baby boomers, however, just for balance, I am one, without a final salary pension and voted to remain. My children for some reason which baffles me completely, voted to leave.

I feel I am not represented by any particular lobby group.

I think we can all agree that those in charge of Brexit have been taking lessons from the Carillion school of leadership and management.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 17:21
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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The problem is that for the Brexit negotiations the top noddy is a Remainer.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 17:35
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I doubt Banks, and any money he used, made the slightest difference to the vote.
The people who had the greatest influence in steering voters towards Brexit were, Blair, Madelson, Geldof etc.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 17:44
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
I doubt Banks, and any money he used, made the slightest difference to the vote.
The people who had the greatest influence in steering voters towards Brexit were, Blair, Madelson, Geldof etc.
Of course you do. And thanks for the vindication.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 17:57
  #35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
I doubt Banks, and any money he used, made the slightest difference to the vote.
The people who had the greatest influence in steering voters towards Brexit were, Blair, Madelson, Geldof etc.
Siti old boy !

Less you may feel one is being churlish here, alas, twas probably best thou didst not embark on a career as, erm, a political analyst ....given thine less than perceptive observations above which, strangely, seem to have omitted one N.Farage ...........unless, that is, you feel he was nothing more than the voice of popular opinion and entirely blameless in his concentrated efforts to promote the decision subsequently voted for.

And an honourable mention also for the unwavering support over 20+ years of fallacies, histrionics, jingoism and associated bolleaux all brought to the publics attention thanks to the Mail / Excess/ Torygraph and Sun whose editorial standards make a piece of used Andrex look like it's just come from a hermitically sealed laboratory with particles filtered to 0.0001microns .......not that any of the rags could remotely have influenced public opinion of course.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 19:35
  #36 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Siti old boy !

Less you may feel one is being churlish here, alas, twas probably best thou didst not embark on a career as, erm, a political analyst ....given thine less than perceptive observations above which, strangely, seem to have omitted one N.Farage ...........unless, that is, you feel he was nothing more than the voice of popular opinion and entirely blameless in his concentrated efforts to promote the decision subsequently voted for.
I have to ask KnC, because you claim to live in the real world, yet you insist on writing in such an arcane manner to siti. Maybe you think that's how the British communicated at the height of Empire? Or is it some fantasy of yours to return to the days when Britain was beginning to flex its adolescent muscles?

Have you stopped taking the medication the nice man in the white coat prescribed?
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 20:14
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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So Mr. Banks spent 10 million on propaganda for Brexit that had no effect whatsoever on the referendum result.
What a waste of his money! Has anyone told him?
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 20:34
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
So Mr. Banks spent 10 million on propaganda for Brexit that had no effect whatsoever on the referendum result.
What a waste of his money! Has anyone told him?

Likewise the 9 million that Cameron / Osborne / etc spent and that really did have no effect on the referendum result. Except that was UK Taxpayers money - and did they ask first ?

Maybe the UK just continued the well practiced pattern of voting for the politicos they disliked least - I mean, it must have been difficult to actually like Cameron, Osborne, Heseltine, Blair, Mandelson, etc,

At the end of the day, does it really matter, who spent how much or is it just another Remainer soundbite such as blue passports, chlorinated chicken, cliff edge, peoples vote, lorry parks, etc, etc, etc, etc.....
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 20:52
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Strange that you can equate an alleged illegal payment with one made legally by the elected government.

If the government's decisions are to be deprecated, perhaps we can object to the one calling the referendum.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 21:09
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Strange that you can equate an alleged illegal payment with one made legally by the elected government.

If the government's decisions are to be deprecated, perhaps we can object to the one calling the referendum.

I really have no idea whether the payments were legal or illegal - that's something which baffles many of us not in the UK, the fact that Political Parties attract ' donations ' from all and sundry and spend it more or less how they choose, whilst a group of individuals clubbed together with a common objective who received donations are closely regulated about from whom they take the donations and how they spend them.

But feel free....Object as much as you want, but it won't change the result.

As I see and understand it, the decision to hold a referendum was pure, out and out politics by Cameron simply to avoid the Conservatives losing votes and seats to UKIP but was offered with the usual arrogance of pro-EU politicos that nobody, repeat nobody, would ever vote to leave, even though the writing was there on the wall for all to see.
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