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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 23rd Jan 2019, 09:04
  #3301 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Big fan of posters so inarticulate the only way they can make a point is by posting unattributable images that could be from anywhere with Juncker atop them, having already demanded others provide proof for their assertions.
After speaking to the Dark Lords of Davos, former Chancellor George Osborne says the likely outcome is a delay of Brexit.

Translation: we globalists will never allow the UK to leave the EU in any real sense.

your mate George. One of the runaway double act, you should make it a threesome (reel)..

https://t.co/sw2PbqIgjd
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 09:09
  #3302 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Look, the BBC is impartial. If it wasn't both the main parties wouldn't be pretty constantly complaining that the BBC was biased. News bias is in the eye of the beholder, and for whatever reason groups such as climate change deniers and Brexiteers who simple don't like to read or hear the truth seem to want to tar the messenger as biased.

Of course with some of the unfounded, and often patently wrong assertions that some high profile Brexiteers make it's hardly surprising that when found out they tend to cry "foul" in a desperate effort to defend the indefensible. They appear to operate on the basis that if you make the same (false) assertions often enough people will believe it. The job of a good news organisation is to debunk that kind of stuff, and with their "Reality Check" team the BBC does a pretty good job of that. If that makes some groups uncomfortable, then fair enough.
Well I guess you don't want to burst that bubble!
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 09:17
  #3303 (permalink)  
 
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https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12...ers-on-brexit/

Hopefully the above link works.
if anyone wants to find out for themselves about how negotiations with the EU are going to proceed during a transition (or indeed if we do leave without an agreement) you could do a lot worse than read the above link. Section 7 in particular. Trade negotiations are lengthy and brutal, and these will be no exception. Nothing will happen quickly. It’s not punishment, it’s just reality.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 09:23
  #3304 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by weemonkey View Post
After speaking to the Dark Lords of Davos, former Chancellor George Osborne says the likely outcome is a delay of Brexit.

Translation: we globalists will never allow the UK to leave the EU in any real sense.

your mate George. One of the runaway double act, you should make it a threesome (reel)..

https://t.co/sw2PbqIgjd
I think people saw through Gideon a long time ago. Let him parrot on, the more he speaks the less likely whatever he says will come to pass !
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 09:26
  #3305 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by zoigberg View Post
https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12...ers-on-brexit/

Hopefully the above link works.
if anyone wants to find out for themselves about how negotiations with the EU are going to proceed during a transition (or indeed if we do leave without an agreement) you could do a lot worse than read the above link. Section 7 in particular. Trade negotiations are lengthy and brutal, and these will be no exception. Nothing will happen quickly. Itís not punishment, itís just reality.
That was an interesting read (well scan actually), not as I suspected it would, supporting the remainer "people vote" argument, but giving a calm and realistic assessment of the realities of leaving the EU. Shame it wasn't widely circulated on broadcast in full.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 09:40
  #3306 (permalink)  
 
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Well looky here, he stuck to his word. If only we'd joined the Euro eh lads?





BBC News | BUSINESS | Entrepreneur issues euro threat
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 10:31
  #3307 (permalink)  
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The ruling party is split between Saville Row tailoring that want out and an equally sartorially led mob that want in. Neither side has articulated a reasoned argument for its stand that the public can remotely comprehend. The opposition party is a Marxist led front which intends to introduce the most sweeping economic socialist revolution seen in Europe since 1848 whilst the Royal Family retain but literally a passing shadow of their past noblesse. Every now and then someone prints an article in the press claiming that the place is the fifth largest economy in the world, but that is only a reflection of its position relative to nominal GDP. In terms of GDP growth, Britain lies around eigth, below France and just above Italy.
Who would want to do business in Britain even now when the Far East beckons? Who would gamble a sou on investing in a Marxist led Britain. All this talk of companies leaving Britain because of Brexit is a smokescreen to detract from the natural detractions of the country itself. Departing companies are not going to admit that they depart because of the threat of a Corbyn administration. Companies will still have to try and do business in Britain under such a government. Companies come and go but the mess that is the Conservative government and the appalling anti business/wealth production alternative waiting in the wings makes any investment in Britain a bad choice. That's the reality of the business world and the Brexit worry has far less to do with common sense business financial planning than Dominic Grieve and his ilk would have the public believe.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 10:42
  #3308 (permalink)  
 
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Of course any business would do well to leave an extreme left-leaning country, as can be seen around the world.

But the likelihood of Labour getting into power here is greatly enhanced by Brexit. So you cannot divorce the exit of business from Brexit.

If Brexit is going to be good for business, you would be seeing new business flooding into the UK, instead of out.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 11:02
  #3309 (permalink)  
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Business, generally being pragmatic rather than political, will wait this one out.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 11:10
  #3310 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
Neither side has articulated a reasoned argument for its stand that the public can remotely comprehend. .
Leave hasn't led a single poll in well over a year. As I write, it's 9 points behind remain across the board. This belies the contention that the public don't understand the consequences of leaving nor that comprehensible arguments have been advanced. You're always entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts.

Moreover, Brexit is the stillborn child of the Conservative party. It's the Conservatives who have been split on the issue for forty years, a Conservative prime minister who offered a misconceived & poorly defined referendum that has led the country directly to the schism, causing irreparable damage to political discourse and a Conservative government who recklessly set the clock ticking without any consensus on how this process should proceed, leading us to an absolute state of chaos we see today. If you support Brexit, you own this, not Labour.

It is our misfortune that in a moment of national crisis, we find ourselves burdened with two of the smallest minded, most inflexible & inept leaders in living memory. We've had plenty of dross at the head of politics in the past, but have always been smart enough not to employ two at the same time. Nonetheless, only one is drink driving & we're all passengers. That's a plain, hard fact.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 11:41
  #3311 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Leave hasn't led a single poll in well over a year. As I write, it's 9 points behind remain across the board. This belies the contention that the public don't understand the consequences of leaving nor that comprehensible arguments have been advanced. You're always entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts.

Moreover, Brexit is the stillborn child of the Conservative party. It's the Conservatives who have been split on the issue for forty years, a Conservative prime minister who offered a misconceived & poorly defined referendum that has led the country directly to the schism, causing irreparable damage to political discourse and a Conservative government who recklessly set the clock ticking without any consensus on how this process should proceed, leading us to an absolute state of chaos we see today. If you support Brexit, you own this, not Labour.

It is our misfortune that in a moment of national crisis, we find ourselves burdened with two of the smallest minded, most inflexible & inept leaders in living memory. We've had plenty of dross at the head of politics in the past, but have always been smart enough not to employ two at the same time. Nonetheless, only one is drink driving & we're all passengers. That's a plain, hard fact.
Apart from a brief period after the television debates Leave didn't lead the polls before the referendum either. I believe that voters were clear on what they were voting for at that time, as Cameron et al repeatedly told us and wrote in their campaign leaflet. I wouldn't be surprised if a referendum 2 still led to a Leave majority. As David Blunkett said, it's such a simple message "Tell them again". The Remain campaign was unable to present any real good reasons to remain, only project fear about what would happen. Lot's of people didn't buy that then, and they won't buy it now.

In fact the proponents of another referendum are only prepared to go down that road if they can skew the question to the point where they are guaranteed a win, as they know it's just as likely to get the same answer now as it did before. Perhaps even more so.

I don't disagree with you about the quality of our current political class though.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 11:46
  #3312 (permalink)  
 
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Who mentioned anything about a second referendum? First rule of exams, always read the question.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 12:06
  #3313 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Moreover, Brexit is the stillborn child of the Conservative party. It's the Conservatives who have been split on the issue for forty years, a Conservative prime minister who offered a misconceived & poorly defined referendum that has led the country directly to the schism, causing irreparable damage to political discourse and a Conservative government who recklessly set the clock ticking without any consensus on how this process should proceed, leading us to an absolute state of chaos we see today. If you support Brexit, you own this, not Labour.
I think youíre actually being generous to the Tories. Cameronís referendum was solely aimed at gaining votes for the Conservative Party, and Mayís Brexit strategy has been aimed at the ERG wing of her party, not building a national consensus. Leaks from cabinet after she lost the vote suggested that for her and a number of other ministers the way forward was governed by what they thought the Conservative Party members would accept, not the national interest.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 12:31
  #3314 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
Business, generally being pragmatic rather than political, will wait this one out.
Except for those who already are leaving.

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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 13:07
  #3315 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Except for those who already are leaving.

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ongoingfrom your Dyson spat, it appears you are (again) promulgating the fakest of fake news..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46962093
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 13:18
  #3316 (permalink)  
 
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A Midlands newspaper poll shows 67% in favour of a no deal Brexit. How do remainers explain that ?
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 13:26
  #3317 (permalink)  
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PJ, I think there was either a poll or opinion that said that taking London out of the equation the remainder was a clear majority for leaving not withstanding Scotland being remain. That would explain the 67%.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 13:55
  #3318 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by papajuliet View Post
A Midlands newspaper poll shows 67% in favour of a no deal Brexit. How do remainers explain that ?
I can find nothing for this online, except for a poll of Tory party members who voted leave & therefore are in the loony wing of the party. Got a linky?
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 14:05
  #3319 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by weemonkey View Post
ongoingfrom your Dyson spat, it appears you are (again) promulgating the fakest of fake news..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46962093
I've read that article, and a similar one in The Times business pages.
Dyson will in future be paying corporation tax in Singapore instead of the UK.
Where is the fake news you refer to.?
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 14:14
  #3320 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by papajuliet View Post
A Midlands newspaper poll shows 67% in favour of a no deal Brexit. How do remainers explain that ?
I suppose it could depend upon the demographic of the people questioned, and what the question was.

That said in my job I encounter people at random and in these volatile times many without prompting express an opinion on Brexit. Generally it is the older cohort who "can't understand why we don't just leave" or "can't understand why we should pay the EU anything" or, best of all "don't understand why all the Indians haven't been sent home as we've voted to leave the EU". I jest not, I have heard all these in the last 2 weeks.

Younger professionals tend, generally but not exclusively, to be appalled by the prospect of leaving and express the opinion (or is it hope) that in the end we won't leave at all.

This isn't yet another "leavers are old / thick / racist" (delete which not applicable) comment, it honestly reflects what I have come across in the East Midlands over the last few weeks. It isn't in any way scientific, indeed another person told be they are fed up with Brexit and just don't understand it (don't know which way they were leaning, I didn't ask). You don't hear many people say they want another referendum, but then I try to avoid politics when talking to them, and don't ask them. Doesn't matter which side they're on however, to a man or woman they think May is useless, and one told me yesterday that they couldn't vote for Corbyn's lot so voted for the Conservative - and he was, he said, a Labour voter. Labour, methinks, has a problem.
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