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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 17th Jan 2019, 17:15
  #3041 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect the veto removal is to start direct taxation to EU citizens. All those new Irish passport members will start bitching when they get taxed at 5% for the privilege of free movement.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 17:22
  #3042 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
2/ No MP can stand without first having worked in some form of an industry bar politics for a minimum of 5 years...
Gordon Brown, bless his little cotton socks, was working along those lines with his Government of all the talents. It was supposed to be cross party and I think it included their lordships, West, Sugar and Digby-Jones.

A problem with picking talented unelected business men is accountability to Parliament; at least they were all in the upper house.

Shame that no PM has the courage to bring an MP from any party into Government - Frank Fields springs to mind. I am sure there are other honourable members who would be an asset.

Back in history the US tried it with the president and VP and more recently with their State Secretaries.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 17:27
  #3043 (permalink)  
 
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Frank Fields springs to mind.
Well just goes to show you how opinions differ PN... wouldn't give that scumbag the time of day.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 18:01
  #3044 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Gordon Brown, bless his little cotton socks, was working along those lines with his Government of all the talents. It was supposed to be cross party and I think it included their lordships, West, Sugar and Digby-Jones.

A problem with picking talented unelected business men is accountability to Parliament; at least they were all in the upper house.

Shame that no PM has the courage to bring an MP from any party into Government - Frank Fields springs to mind. I am sure there are other honourable members who would be an asset.

Back in history the US tried it with the president and VP and more recently with their State Secretaries.
Erm, could have sworn that it was a requirement to be an MP first..... before being elevated......still, our understanding of reality does differ somewhat so I could be wrong
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 18:30
  #3045 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
You're right of course. The EU never were, and never will, give us the sweet deal promised by Boris and company. It was always out of the question.

So why did Mr Tusk offer exactly that 2 years ago?

“From the very beginning, the EU offer has been not just a Canada deal, but a 'Canada plus plus plus' deal. Much further-reaching on trade, on internal security and on foreign policy cooperation. This is a true measure of respect. And this offer remains in place,” said Tusk in a prepared statement.

By "Canada plus plus plus," Tusk is referring to a souped-up free-trade agreement — like the one that the EU has with Canada but with add-ons."
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 19:16
  #3046 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
"this application is both bizarre and eccentric.." Cue smiles from the Southwoldites. I continued "..and as such it fits perfectly with the character of the town".
Sounds about right to me. I know the International Crabbing Championship is actually held the other side of the river, but I'm sure it's all part of the same local character
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 19:22
  #3047 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Erm, could have sworn that it was a requirement to be an MP first..... before being elevated......still, our understanding of reality does differ somewhat so I could be wrong
Nope. It isn't done every week, but the government can give someone a seat in the House of Lords one day and a seat at the cabinet table the next.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 21:31
  #3048 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Nope. It isn't done every week, but the government can give someone a seat in the House of Lords one day and a seat at the cabinet table the next.
Correct Gertrude, as evidenced by that giant size twerp Adonis !
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 23:15
  #3049 (permalink)  
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It's a sad exercise, speculating on the dizzy heights to which the British economy could have ascended had the government of the day just got on with it and left the EU? Just think how many EU countries would be clamouring to leave the EU by now instead of having been shown a masterful example of how not to do it, from all sides of the enormously numbered and thus encumbered UK Parliament.
The only man in Britain who could have carried that project forward in the Churchillian style it needed was the Farage. Bentley missed an opportunity there with their ridiculously named Bentayga,

Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 17th Jan 2019 at 23:38.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 23:42
  #3050 (permalink)  
 
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The only man in Britain who could have carried that project forward in the Churchillian style it needed was the Farage.
The only real politician amongst all of 'em, like him or hate him, competent he is. Worth half a dozen (or more) of the so called cabinet.

If it gets to a second referendum he has already stated he wasn't going to f--- around this time, they should heed his warning.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 23:46
  #3051 (permalink)  
 
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Like it. The Bentley Farage, Likes a drink, bit smokey & guaranteed not to start at least the first seven times. Pulls to the right, sat nav available in Russian,
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 23:49
  #3052 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=ORAC;10362004] Regardless, it should be accepted that our relationship with the EU has been irrevocably changed.

If I could go back two years, knowing what I know now, I might vote differently. Not that my views have changed, but I was expecting to lose and would have accepted the verdict, and seeming the divisions and discord that have ensued I am not sure it was worth the price. However, that is a genie that cannot be put back in the bottle, and the consequences must be borne.

I am afraid I cannot see any destination which is not fraught.




It was inevitable that our relationship with Europe would change - indeed, making that change was the purpose of the exercise but you are right, every destination comes with problems..

But I would argue that all the sound and fury does not necessarily negate the initial propositions of either Remain or Leave people. There was not a problem before the denizens of the zoo (did you see their infantile behaviour before the Big Vote?) popularly known as the House of Commons, suddenly felt it incumbent upon themselves to develop an active interest in a subject with which they had not bothered to concern themselves for forty years..During this time we have moved into the age of the self-serving careerist politician and an atrophied political machine. Mrs May and her coterie of third-raters have bungled things so seriously that there was little chance that Parliament would not become involved. And still the Maybot continues with her blinkered pursuit of an unattainable and wholly unpopular goal, as if to demonstrate the validity of Einstein's definition of stupidity.

Thus it has become possible for the Remain faction with the assistance of Bercow, a Speaker who has disgraced his office, to enable Parliament to usurp the powers of the Executive. This is dangerous territory. The essential problem now is that one set of hopeless people has been replaced by another set of equally hopeless people. In my view the most pragmatic way out of this impasse is to hold a general election. Remainers constantly claim that the referendum was flawed because the Leavers did not understand that coming out of the EU would mean leaving the single market and the customs union. Rubbish! This was, to use that overworked phrase "perfectly clear" and to think that the vote was for anything else is delusional. But then the whole sorry subject is blanketed in delusion. Nevertheless, politicians seem to hold the view that voters need saving from themselves. As that quisling Dominic Grieve said last week, "Parliamentarians do have some duties and one of them is to prevent people from committing national suicide".

Parliament, with the help of the disgraceful Bercow, is changing procedure in order to obtain an outcome that MPs feel they can't get by any other means. Rules of procedure exist to define known parameters in order to reach consensus and resolve disputes. Tearing up the rule book which has sustained the workings of Parliament so well and for so long, puts us on the path to anarchy. A second referendum would achieve nothing beyond stoking resentment. The essential problem lies not with the vote of 2016 but that MPs have failed to implement the instructions which flowed from it; the government has had incredibly poor leadership. The Leavers might obtain a larger majority in a second vote but the result would still come back to the same mediocrities in the House so that in all probability, nothing would change, except that many would be galvanised by a burning sense of injustice. There is an obvious need to change the leadership in government and in Parliament. The historic and accepted manner in which political crisis is managed is to hold a general election. I see this as representing the best way forward.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 23:56
  #3053 (permalink)  
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But it is the historic and accepted manner of British government that has allowed this political alligator to morph into a crisis and while there may be an obvious need to change leadership in government and Parliament, there exists no manifest alternative leadership in either.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 07:47
  #3054 (permalink)  
 
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Gipsy Q, Maybe you might explain just how a GE might resolve this issue. First of all The Maybot isn't going to lead The Tories into it, so that raises the big question of who is. It's difficult at the moment to see them choosing a candidate that unites their party. In fact it is difficult to see them ending up with one that doesn't split it asunder, maybe you might like to nominate a unity candidate, Dominic Grieve, or The saintly Jacob?

Then we have the problem of Old Corby. He isn't going to cut it either. So it is quite possible that we leap out of the Maybot frying pan into a fire tended by somebody equally bad, if not worse. This is one of those situations aptly summed up by the weary traveller who draws up beside the gnarled and not too bright Norfolk country yokel to ask directions only to be told. "Blust bor, you're miles off..I wouldn't start from here."
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 08:10
  #3055 (permalink)  
 
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EM, inclined to agree with your view on a the usefulness of a GE, I don't think we should have had the last one, that might of made today look different if she had not tried to be clever and lost her majority, she would not have the DUP around her neck either.

Further to that another referendum is equally, if not more so, a waste of time and would achieve nothing but more of the same, and would probably cause more issues than it would supposedly solve.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 08:14
  #3056 (permalink)  
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Caution :readers of a JB sensitive disposition and nature should be aware this piece contains images of Gordon Brown......however, for those likely to be traumatised fast forward to 13mins 56 secs, and the interview with the gentleman from the food distribution company.

Doubtless he will be classed as "project fear " personified, possibly because he clearly knows the reality of the current situation, the costs and the long term effects.

He also gives credence to the expertise of Parapunter when it comes the logistics involved.

Meanwhile, the Army will be engaged in working out a parade order and arguing as to which Regiment and cap badge takes priority when they get involved....Army priorities being what they are.

https://www.channel4.com/news/army-r...no-deal-brexit

Nearly forgot, at the end of the programme is a piece about child / food poverty and the reality for many.....but don't worry, as this won't affect any residents of JB Wisteria Avenue, there's no need to get overly concerned.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 08:49
  #3057 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Nearly forgot, at the end of the programme is a piece about child / food poverty and the reality for many.....but don't worry, as this won't affect any residents of JB Wisteria Avenue, there's no need to get overly concerned.
If child poverty is such an issue, why do poor people keep banging them out? Question based on a recent article in the i which lamented a "homeless" couple whose struggles included the female half being pregnant again and how unfair life and Universal Credit was to people like them.

(There were other factors at play, but such things don't concern the i)
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 09:31
  #3058 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by eal401 View Post
If child poverty is such an issue, why do poor people keep banging them out? Question based on a recent article in the i which lamented a "homeless" couple whose struggles included the female half being pregnant again and how unfair life and Universal Credit was to people like them.

(There were other factors at play, but such things don't concern the i)
Disclaimer : I am not an anthropologist so I could be wrong, but, the human race has been reproducing for several millennia because we have genetic traits which make us so inclined. However, possibly you are in favour of, say, social eugenics here in the UK....you know the sort of thing, a bit of legislation perhaps that states " you will not be permitted to reproduce or raise a family if you have an income level below £100k each ( not collectively ) and have not gained a First Class ( Hons ) Degree from an approved University "

That said, thanks as I've said before entirely due to events , in theory, due to come to fruition in March---- " T-10 and counting " taking prominence , the time bomb clock called Universal Credit has also been ticking away nicely.....as those poor souls affected can confirm as their lives are made a misery...through NO fault of their own.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 09:33
  #3059 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gipsy Queen View Post
Remainers constantly claim that the referendum was flawed because the Leavers did not understand that coming out of the EU would mean leaving the single market and the customs union. Rubbish! This was, to use that overworked phrase "perfectly clear" and to think that the vote was for anything else is delusional.
I've chopped this to bits since I don't have a week to shoot at the flowering, unexpurgated overpadded ramblings but I do like the passage above. Like, really like it.

It's clear that one can possess an excellent thesaurus & aeons of time to compose a magnum opus & still be a complete stranger to history.

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Old 18th Jan 2019, 09:39
  #3060 (permalink)  
 
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Meanwhile, the Army will be engaged in working out a parade order and arguing as to which Regiment and cap badge takes priority when they get involved....Army priorities being what they are.

https://www.channel4.com/news/army-r...no-deal-brexit
No, the reason they are being called up is simply to invade Eire, once we hold that, the issue of the border is a moot point

Parliament, with the help of the disgraceful Bercow, is changing procedure in order to obtain an outcome that MPs feel they can't get by any other means. Rules of procedure exist to define known parameters in order to reach consensus and resolve disputes. Tearing up the rule book which has sustained the workings of Parliament so well and for so long, puts us on the path to anarchy.
I am surprised they never legally challenged his decision.
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