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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 8th Jan 2019, 22:48
  #2561 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
yes, democratic process has already been fulfilled. Even if the loser's would argue otherwise.

In fact thanks to the daft bint which insured it, Art 50 wouldn't actually be legal otherwise.

Does that mean she'll be able to make a claim in the event of a 'crash' ?
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 22:53
  #2562 (permalink)  
 
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That's the main sticking point, smoke and mirrors, we will give you a covering letter assuring xyz that is not legally binding on us as you have the Art 50 agreement.... who does she think she is kidding, Joe Public are not as stupid as she seems to think we are which is more than insulting.
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 22:55
  #2563 (permalink)  
 
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Illegal in the sense that strict rules are laid down as to expenditure, and more importantly in this case, how the funds came about. Arron Banks claimed that they came from businesses that he owned, specifically diamond mines in Africa. Investigations have since suggested that those mines are shut and have been for some considerable time. Furthermore Banks refuses to expand on this which suggests that he has something to hide.
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 22:55
  #2564 (permalink)  
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I had to look up Gareth Southgate so you'd have to exclude him, but you could include Posh Spice who has both brains and a certain sort of muted attractiveness as well as a pointedly footballic connection.
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 23:00
  #2565 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Illegal in what sense? the tactics employed or the result, one cannot accurately tell if the result would have been different if the tactics were different
This is where all reasonable assumptions of credibility evaporates. No one by now can be engaged with the debate & not be an actual cretin and still say what illegality? You aren't a cretin, right? So that only leaves what? Intellectual dishonesty? Disingenuous schtick? I see no ships?.

Looking the other way is not enough. It happened, it's extremely well documented & still you seek to deny it. So I can't take it seriously and this is before I get to the second, much worse part which seeks to excuse the first. You seemingly can't construct enough of an argument not to undermine yourself. In effect you're saying: What crime? *Deep breath* We can't be sure the crime altered the result.

Pull the other one.
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 23:19
  #2566 (permalink)  
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Either which way, I am dreadfully sorry to say that the UK will never again, if it ever were, be united; which of course reflects exactly the sort of divide and conquer in which the EU delights and at which its Machiavellian ministries are so adept. It's been a long game coming but as in Singapore, when all the guns were facing the wrong way, the enemy has crept up from behind and (almost by now) forced the surrender and humiliation of a once proud and more or less united nation. Putting an end, once and for all, to any hopes of a separate development for Britain has long been an EU ambition. Now remorselessly achieved. Reflect at leisure as to why while I scuba dive in the Philippines.

Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 9th Jan 2019 at 00:02.
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 23:51
  #2567 (permalink)  
 
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But is it reasonable to blame the EU for Britain being split virtually down the middle? My guess is that we were split before Brexit and this has just highlighted the fault lines. Although not originally a Remainer the conduct of both sides since June 2016 has made me firmly so. I really feel that I share most of the common values held by that side and I now regard the Brexiteers as extremists, whether that be JRM and Boris aiming for an Indonesia style race to the bottom society of automatons or a Corbynista style paradise a la GDR in the 1960's. I really don't wish to live in either of those societies.
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 23:52
  #2568 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
This is where all reasonable assumptions of credibility evaporates. No one by now can be engaged with the debate & not be an actual cretin and still say what illegality? You aren't a cretin, right? So that only leaves what? Intellectual dishonesty? Disingenuous schtick? I see no ships?.

Looking the other way is not enough. It happened, it's extremely well documented & still you seek to deny it. So I can't take it seriously and this is before I get to the second, much worse part which seeks to excuse the first. You seemingly can't construct enough of an argument not to undermine yourself. In effect you're saying: What crime? *Deep breath* We can't be sure the crime altered the result.

Pull the other one.
No what I am saying is can you 100% say that this actually effected the outcome, no, just as one can not say 100% that the remain camp also got up to some dirty tricks.,
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 00:08
  #2569 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
But is it reasonable to blame the EU for Britain being split virtually down the middle? My guess is that we were split before Brexit and this has just highlighted the fault lines. Although not originally a Remainer the conduct of both sides since June 2016 has made me firmly so. I really feel that I share most of the common values held by that side and I now regard the Brexiteers as extremists, whether that be JRM and Boris aiming for an Indonesia style race to the bottom society of automatons or a Corbynista style paradise a la GDR in the 1960's. I really don't wish to live in either of those societies.
I totally agree, the forming of the NI, Welsh and Scottish assemblies split the UK long before Brexit ever did, oddly enough the only Country not to get an independent parliament was England. I for one can understand the reasoning for it, but the financial burden on running four independent legislators and the civil servants to back each one must be huge.

The biggest failing in my eyes on the Brexit vote was that it was a vote for the UK as a whole to leave the EU and as such the results should have been announced as a kingdom, by announcing the individual areas simply has fueled diversion amongst our peoples, it wasn't a Scottish, Welsh or Irish Vote, it was a UK vote and should have been announced in the results as that, it would have stopped all this in party and Country back biting, such as Scotland stating they never voted to leave etc..
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 00:32
  #2570 (permalink)  
 
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The police disagree with you.
No they dont they are invetigating Aaron Banks who was not a part of the offical campaign. Even taking into account the money Banks put in Remain still spent more money than leave so why did they lose? https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-35478588.html
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 00:35
  #2571 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
Does no one realise that if Moscow had anything to do with any of these in and out machinations then so, perhaps, just possibly, did the trade unions, Jermey Corbyn, John McDonnell and almost certainly Seamus Milne and Momentum.
I agree, so does this call into question Labours improvement in the last election? https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...Election-Putin
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 07:47
  #2572 (permalink)  
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What's $1m , give or take a few cents and some interest, between friends......and who better to make a tax payer funded contribution to really.

Parliamentary privilege can be useful at times, as this female Labour MP demonstrates, so presumably following the same illogical and warped thinking that Anna Soubry should be summarily evicted purely on the basis of her actually doing what an MP is supposed to do, no doubt this lady should also suffer the same fate.

https://www.channel4.com/news/labour...rexit-contract
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 08:24
  #2573 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
I would say Banks probably and those you mention possibly.
you forgot Obama
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 08:40
  #2574 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
I am dreadfully sorry to say that the UK will never again, if it ever were, be united;.
All I can say is my immediate family and my extended family was evenly divided but remain a United family.

In my club it is not a topic of conversation. It is not at the forefront of argument in the pub.

The general tenor is one of satisfaction or acceptance. It seems that only the media and the politicians in the parties and here in JB actually continue to argue. Politicians disunited maybe but the country 'if they ever were', no?
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 08:49
  #2575 (permalink)  
 
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So now some people are seriously claiming the possible break up of the Union is actually the result of a long game being played in Brussels...nothing at all to do with some of the policies and some cases downright the downright incompetence coming out of Westminster?

I wonder if it is too late to be investing in tinfoil futures......

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Old 9th Jan 2019, 10:11
  #2576 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
No what I am saying is can you 100% say that this actually effected the outcome, no, just as one can not say 100% that the remain camp also got up to some dirty tricks.,
Rather begs the question why did both leave campaigns engage AIQ & Cambridge Analytica then, don't you think? If the efficacy of their services are so questionable it raises further questions in respect of how two overlapping, shadowy data manipulation firms who as a matter of record used millions of stolen Facebook profiles to target swing voters for both Vote Leave & Leave.Eu, in spite of the apparent public hostility of the two campaigns to one another to the same ends but you seem to have bolted straight for the nebulous rabbit hole of suggesting I provide the metrics from two private organisations who have sought to obfuscate, hide & deny the provenance of their finances but somehow the impossible to acquire finer workings of their data operation for your benefit is the only satisfactory outcome.

This is the thing about leavers though, with every question that is asked of the referendum, the tortuous red lines, the impossible negotiation, the self evident damage to the UK, the right wing, shadowy silicon valley capital behind the campaigns, the permanent divisions, it becomes ever clearer that in order to maintain the artifice that we exercised a fair process of democracy, they've had to go through so many emotional and intellectual contortions that they've started to look quite insane.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 10:14
  #2577 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Danny G View Post
No they dont they are invetigating Aaron Banks who was not a part of the offical campaign. Even taking into account the money Banks put in Remain still spent more money than leave so why did they lose? https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-35478588.html
You're definitely lacking a grasp of the detail there & even allowing for that, you've conjured up a false equivalence between money spent & the eventual outcome so enormous, that it would be visible from space.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 10:15
  #2578 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
but even if it is correct it won't change a default exit happening on March 29th.

And after that you can bitch as much as you like how illegal it is and how unfair it is.... the UK will be default exit anyway.
If the latest vote in the commons goes through you may need to review that view. Theresa's long game may well be not so long after all. In fact it will just be so long to Theresa.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 10:49
  #2579 (permalink)  
 
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But surely the MPs have no vote on a default exit (as called No Deal) under Article 50, it states if there is no deal the UK leaves and by default that means trading transfers to WTO rules, the only people who can change that is the EU27 and if they don't want to, the UK can do nothing to alter that no matter how much people state they are against that outcome
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 11:10
  #2580 (permalink)  
 
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Turns out Parliament taking back control isn't to everyone's taste. Thank the lord for MP's willing to stand up for Britain's best interests.
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