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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 6th Jan 2019, 10:15
  #2441 (permalink)  
 
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In the case of money, we know what the French would do. As they did on leaving NATO, they’d pay nothing.
what would the French do if they found themselves in an organisation they came to believe rightly or wrongly wasn’t serving their national self-interest? Need we even ask...Au revoir!
That's my thinking - why pay for what we won't be able to participate in? We've been booted out of the Galileo satnav project, so why should we continue to prop up an organisation that is so inflexible and in somewhat parlous financial waters itself? Perhaps the UK may be the first domino to fall out, leaving others with a larger financial input to absorb or decide that if the EU can't manage its finances, then they too could be better out than in.

Make no mistake, I voted to join a COMMON MARKET for trade, but what it has since morphed in to has far exceeded what I want to be part of.
The sooner we tell the EU that we will NOT pay anything after 29 March the sooner wise heads will do the number crunching and realise what the EU stands to lose - financial propping and a potential stampede by poorer EU members to exit before they are required to fill the shortfall.

That's what I want May to do - say NO MORE MONEY unless the UK gets control of a trade deal with the EU that accommodates the DUP and Eire concerns, control of who comes in to the UK and financial services centred in London. See if the EU will then change its stance. Just try it - what have we got to lose from the present skewed "Deal"?
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 11:00
  #2442 (permalink)  
 
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But that's the thing about the craziest of the Leavers. They seem to be of the opinion that you can just do these things in isolation without any further consequences. So what if in response to our not paying the EU decide to impose sanctions of their own? It would be the easiest thing in the world for them to stage a work to rule over paperwork that would gum up all our freight movements in and out. Arguably that would be easier to put up a legal justification for than for us not weighing them out their 39 bill. Presumably the Leavers then would say send a gunboat. That's one of those gunboats we don't have, so I suppose we could contract that one out to Seaborne Fight. They don't have any either.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 12:06
  #2443 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Icare9 View Post
.That's what I want May to do - say NO MORE MONEY unless the UK gets control of a trade deal with the EU that accommodates the DUP and Eire concerns, control of who comes in to the UK and financial services centred in London. See if the EU will then change its stance. Just try it - what have we got to lose from the present skewed "Deal"?
Can you not see that stamping your feet and ‘demanding” the U.K. “gets control of a “trade deal” is exactly why we are where we are today?

..and no, there will be no stampede from others in the EU27 to do anything re Brexit and no, the EU will not in any fundamental way change It’s stance
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 12:20
  #2444 (permalink)  

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I realise this is more boring Brexit crap, but today Treeza, on the Andrew Marr Show stated that there are now those who are pushing for a second referendum in order to stop Brexit in its tracks !
Surely that is the clearest indication that both she and her Brexit cronies are fully aware that the mood of the country has changed completely now that it has become apparent what Brexit really amounts to !

El Grifo
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 12:33
  #2445 (permalink)  
 
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stated that there are now those who are pushing for a second referendum in order to stop Brexit in its tracks !
They've bee doing that since July 2016.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 12:54
  #2446 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
They've bee doing that since July 2016.
Point is perhaps that May has only just noticed. Which does make one wonder

- what else she has only just noticed
- what she hasn't noticed at all yet that the rest of us have known for two and a half years.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 13:04
  #2447 (permalink)  
 
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I reckon May has backed herself into a corner and will believe the polls and hold a second referendum, bit like she did for her disastrous election, and the only options would be accept her deal, or cancel article 50, I don't reckon anyone would have leave the EU as an option again as I reckon that would still be the outcome if they did.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 13:16
  #2448 (permalink)  
 
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I can't see that referendum choice getting through the commission never mind the house or lords.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 14:33
  #2449 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
So what if in response to our not paying the EU decide to impose sanctions of their own? It would be the easiest thing in the world for them to stage a work to rule over paperwork that would gum up all our freight movements in and out.
Since they export more to us then import from us, that might be a bit counterproductive.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 15:23
  #2450 (permalink)  
 
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The biggest problem with not paying our debts to the EU is that no country will ever sign a deal with us again unless we pay up front.
Our creditworthiness will be shot.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 17:55
  #2451 (permalink)  
 
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It’s all very well cackling that the vote may not go to plan. Upsetting a commons vote is easy enough. Saying what you’d do instead is another matter. Corbyns talk of going back for a “better” deal is pure fairydust. Derailing the only Brexit plan we have without a word on what labour would do differently serves only the narrowest of partisan agendas.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 18:20
  #2452 (permalink)  
 
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I'm pretty sure that I know what Corbyn's plan is. When I was 19 I went back to college full time having left school three years earlier with just O levels. Because I had taken English at evening class I had to do three A levels to qualify for a full grant.i was already doing History and Economics so had to choose another. I chose Sociology because it was a doddle.

Actually I found it most interesting and enlightening. Some of the textbooks were by Marxists and their theories were that you needed the working class to feel alienated to foment revolution. I don't think old Corby has moved on one iota. He sees Brexit as producing an alienated class that will then take to the streets, as such it is instrumental in his plan. I'm not saying he is right but it suits his Marxist philosophy...of course he may be right. Hang on to your hats folks !
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 20:32
  #2453 (permalink)  
 
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their theories were that you needed the working class to feel alienated to foment revolution.
The problem with the UK is that because the British are so poor at learning foreign languages they wouldn't understand what the working class were shouting about.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 20:34
  #2454 (permalink)  
 
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I think he see's it that it doesn't matter which way it goes that it will produce the effect he wants.

One thing he does know is he doesn't want to hand over any cash to other socialists and he doesn't want to be restricted by anyone else's rules either.

It doesn't matter what his party majority want either.

I don't think it will produce the effect he wants though. But it will ensure a default exit.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 21:00
  #2455 (permalink)  
 
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How can continued payment for services etc that we are no longer able to participate in, be considered "debts" that "no other Country will ever deal with us?"
Stop our access, we stop their access to our dosh....

I wish I had the crystal balls that you all seem possessed of to make such definite statements as fact.....

What is happening now is a breakdown of trust and respect for our elected politicians who have made personal capital out of the Brexit fiasco instead of accepting the democratic majority and working from a position of strength to ensure the fastest and best deal to amicably leave the EU. That means the Remainers with their sad demand for a second/third ad infinitum vote. What if the second referendum were to produce the same or increased majority to leave? Would they accept that or want another? And if they did get a majority as the rest of us are so sick of it all, would the Leavers then demand yet another and so on?
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 21:58
  #2456 (permalink)  
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Since the 2016 referendum the remain campaign has been boosted by lavish funding resulting in some extremely expensive court cases. It has received big bucks from overseas and from George Soros, wherever he may live. The remain campaign has had the full weight and invidious support of the treasury and benefited from that acerbic propaganda machine the BBC.
Given all of the above and a lot more besides that would be far too tedious to enumerate a 54/46 poll split in favour of remain is in reality a great boost for the leave campaign. The Brexiteers, far from being disheartened at such a result should congratulate themselves on the lie that has been given to the fifth columnist pro European forces in general and the all pervasive influence of the British Treasury in particular.
You may expect Ollie Robbins to be given a peerage when all this is over, for services to the nation although it will remain unclear whether the nation is the UK or a euphemism for the EU.
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 02:36
  #2457 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
The biggest problem with not paying our debts to the EU is that no country will ever sign a deal with us again unless we pay up front.
Our creditworthiness will be shot.
Show me in the terms of the EU it says we must pay anything, it does not, it simply says date, time and see you. You also seem to miss out on the fact a lot of the infrastructure we are leaving behind has been paid for by us, are we getting any assets back?
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 02:42
  #2458 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
I reckon May has backed herself into a corner and will believe the polls and hold a second referendum, bit like she did for her disastrous election, and the only options would be accept her deal, or cancel article 50, I don't reckon anyone would have leave the EU as an option again as I reckon that would still be the outcome if they did.
Its not like you could call it tomorrow, chances are it would be well past the deadline and then its not democracy at work, if it swung the other way would we get a third attempt? the other option is the hard brexit, sorry, but that is what we voted for, there was no easy brexit on the card when we voted.
what would you put on the referrendum

cancel it
mays brexit
hard brexit

say cancel got 40%
mays 30%
hard 30%
you would have the remainers declaring a win and the leavers declaring a win on 60% and no decision.
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 04:29
  #2459 (permalink)  
 
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Nutloose, see Part 1, Section 4 of this: THE WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT AND POLITICAL DECLARATION ON OUR FUTURE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE EU . It's not particularly reassuring unfortunately....

The details of the EU's assets are broken down here: The UK?s Brexit bill: could EU assets partially offset liabilities? | Bruegel
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 07:07
  #2460 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
The problem with the UK is that because the British are so poor at learning foreign languages they wouldn't understand what the working class were shouting about.
HOWAY MAN!

Good one.
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