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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 28th Dec 2018, 17:58
  #2021 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
In 1642 a war broke out between what were, on the whole, a jolly bunch of fellows, much given to carousing and believing in the monarchy, divine rights and probably fox hunting too. They were opposed by a gangrenous bunch of sombre clothed, dogma ridden zealots who didn't at all like tradition, thought rather ill of their country and knew with an unswerving certainty that what they knew to be right, righteous and reasonable was, just so! They liked burning anyone they thought was a witch too.
This was the start of the last English Civil War.
It ended, more or less, nine years later, with an executed monarch and a miserable, downtrodden country that had to spend the next twenty years or so learning all over again how to make Christmas pudding and mulled wine flavoured with Nellie's Oranges and stirred just right with a dash of pragmatic popery.
I enjoyed this; thank you cc. It might very well "serve to distract" but I suspect not for long.

Sadly, the gulf between the present-day opponents seems unbridgeable although I hope, despite the obvious analogies to be found between now and the polarisations of the 17th century, we do not actually come to blows. Frankly, I find the prospect of twenty years or so (not that I shall last that long!) under the neo-Roundheads to be a very unpleasant prospect indeed, Given the maintenance of the Maybot and her perverse distortions of democratic mandate and if dear old Sproggers and his chums get their way, it's going to be AOG for Britain.

I shall resist following Nellie's oranges to supinely Gwynn and bear it!
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Old 28th Dec 2018, 18:16
  #2022 (permalink)  
 
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Given the maintenance of the Maybot and her perverse distortions of democratic mandate and if dear old Sproggers and his chums get their way, it's going to be AOG for Britain.
If the hardline Brexiteers get their way, then I really do fear for the social fabric of the UK, if the more pragmatic wing of Brexit gets it's way then I am less fearful.

If the whole thing were called off, then the prospects for the UK would undoubtedly brighter economically, but socially and politically, unless that were done through the mechanism of another public vote, the consequences could be as bad as for the hardline Brexit scenario.
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Old 28th Dec 2018, 18:22
  #2023 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
If the whole thing were called off, then the prospects for the UK would undoubtedly brighter economically, but socially and politically, unless that were done through the mechanism of another public vote, the consequences could be as bad as for the hardline Brexit scenario.
I don't think so. The #brexshitters would carry on whining, sure, but we've lived with that for the last forty years so we can live with it for another forty.
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Old 28th Dec 2018, 18:48
  #2024 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post

On civil rights, Brexit,so enthusiastically embraced by people with no interest in Europe have succeeded in presiding over the loss of freedom of movement for 1.5m Britons & 3.5m Europeans living here. And only yesterday, we saw the Home office announce EU citizens and their families will have apply to continue living in the UK after 2020 despite the exact reverse being promised by leave campaigners and for that matter, Theresa May. That is a demolition of civil rights the likes of which have not been seen since the second world war. .
This is exercising me today, It's your friends, colleagues & neighbours who will be having lives made here over decades jeopardised. In some cases, your partners.

I don't recall this being on the ballot but it's what you get when you enable a government given to satisfying its vestigial compulsions. May should have lost two jobs over her handling of immigration.She is little more than a racist in a dress in my view. Those she smears as queue jumpers & citizens of nowhere are the same people who gather our food, clean our buildings & make our hospitals work.
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Old 28th Dec 2018, 21:23
  #2025 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-46703806
[Image copyrightPAImage caption




Fiona Onasanya has said she plans to stay on in the House of CommonsAn MP who lied to police about a speeding offence has said she plans to stay on in the House of Commons, despite facing a possible jail term.

Writing in her local newspaper, Fiona Onasanya said constituents should "rest assured" she will remain their MP.

The Peterborough MP, 35, was convicted of perverting the course of justice at the Old Bailey earlier this month.

She has been suspended by Labour, but will only lose her seat in the Commons if she is jailed for more than a year.

In the article in the Peterborough Telegraph, Ms Onasanya did not mention her conviction for lying to police to avoid a speeding charge.

'Voice for change'

The piece, headlined "I will continue to fight against injustices", focused instead on her "successful year" in politics.

words fail me
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Old 28th Dec 2018, 21:39
  #2026 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
words fail me
When I knew her (we were councillors at the same time and on one committee together) I didn't think she was overly bright. I was surprised to learn that she had a day job as a solicitor.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 01:08
  #2027 (permalink)  
 
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I that Corbyn has a bit of a nasty shock coming to him over the next few months. I fully expect his clamour for a GE to die down as his party's poll ratings suffer something of a reverse as soon as he has to make his position on a Brexit clear.

I certainly don't see him doing a U turn on half a century of opposition to the EU and as soon as the bulk of his Remain support realises this the Labour supporting Remainers will fragment, the bulk defecting to Cable, another segment going Green and some more just not turning out. It really is approaching make your mind up time for Jezza and I for one have no dea how he intends to handle it, and I don't think he has either.

I expect to see Labour's poll rating drop to the low thirties in the months ahead. They may not fall behind the Tories by much but I think the modest leads that they have recently enjoyed are as good as it gets. 2019 could see a LibDem revival with Cable riding a Remainer wave if Brexit continues to resemble the shape of a pear with the two main parties, rightly in my view, sharing the blame.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 02:44
  #2028 (permalink)  
 
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Well, Sprog old son .... ever occur to you to think why they left (the other 27 members of the EU) to come here?
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 06:12
  #2029 (permalink)  
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This has already been mentioned, but, there's a certain irony as to the ferry company who are top of the list.....and the one at the bottom.

And Kent's status as the "garden of England " is soon to be transformed into the "truck park of England "........that should go down well at the next G.E

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46704522
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 06:30
  #2030 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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And now for a broadcast from the People’s Vote and Remain party.......

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Old 29th Dec 2018, 06:36
  #2031 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prawn2king4 View Post
Well, Sprog old son .... ever occur to you to think why they left (the other 27 members of the EU) to come here?
Because it's entirely legal for them to do so. Just as it is for 1.5m Britons who did the same thing in the other direction.We've arrived at a moment when the Government asked families to pay £40 for kids born in the UK to apply to stay, based purely on the ethnicity of the parents - citizens legally here. Not even register but apply. It's a matter of shame that your response is to imply those people are taking advantage of us. Every time I think Brexit zealots have reached the bottom of the barrel, they find a new depth to plumb.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 07:04
  #2032 (permalink)  
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We've arrived at a moment when the Government asked families to pay £40 for kids born in the UK to apply to stay, based purely on the ethnicity of the parents - citizens legally here.
You don’t get automatic citizenship by birth (Jus Soli) in the UK any more, in fact it is very rare anywhere these days....

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...tizenship.html

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Old 29th Dec 2018, 07:12
  #2033 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
You donít get automatic citizenship by birth (Jus Soli) in the UK any more, in fact it is very rare anywhere these days....

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...tizenship.html

No one but you mentioned citizenship. Perhaps I can draw your attention to promises made by leave:



On your hilarious 2nd referendum video, your PM has brokered a deal that pleases none of the 52% & maybe a handful of the 48% If you regard yourself as a democrat, which I doubt or at least only when democracy suits you, then presumably you'd favour the people speaking on the terms of the arrangement. Or not, whatever.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 07:18
  #2034 (permalink)  
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“Lawfully resident” - A promise being kept......

https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families

It’ll be free to apply if:p.s. It was you who raised the subject of citizenship: “...citizens legally here”....
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 07:24
  #2035 (permalink)  
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Labour supporting Remainers will fragment, the bulk defecting to Cable, another segment going Green and some more just not turning out.
Does that matter?

No doubt the Tory voters will also fragment. It would then fall to the party that could form a coalition to form a government. On present form that is likely to be a Lib Lab pact again.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 07:27
  #2036 (permalink)  
 
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No, I said citizens. You're implying citizens of the UK. I did not say that at all. If you think a promise is being kept, you're either unable to follow the news or are wilfully dishonest. The process has been amended to require EU 27 citizens legally resident here to apply for settled status irrespective of how long you've legally been in the UK, That is a betrayal of what was promised. The promise is literally one post up in red & white. EU citizens in the UK were promised to continue their lives "as before". But settled status is a lesser status & people will need to apply, qualify & pay for it. If you don't care about that, do you really think you can you still trust the Govt with your own rights?

Prime example from a staunch leave voter who apparently knew exactly what they were voting for (turns out they didn't).

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Old 29th Dec 2018, 07:29
  #2037 (permalink)  
 
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Sprog, do you work hard at grasping the wrong end of the stick .... or does it come naturally? The implication is entirely in your own mind. I am gently reminding you that the UK is an attractive place to live - for whatever reason. And it was also attractive without the assistance of EU nationals before it became open to them. which is presumably why they made their choice when able to do so.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 07:44
  #2038 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prawn2king4 View Post
Sprog, do you work hard at grasping the wrong end of the stick .... or does it come naturally? The implication is entirely in your own mind. I am gently reminding you that the UK is an attractive place to live - for whatever reason. And it was also attractive without the assistance of EU nationals before it became open to them. which is presumably why they made their choice when able to do so.
I work hard at following events. You make reference to the UK pre 1973 which is not particularly edifying or relevant to the discussion at hand. Leave promised only benefits & no costs. The reality is so different that it's own mother wouldn't recognise. As the economic & human cost unfolds before our eyes (Latest: Grayling spends £108m on ferries ~ 3,750 nurses for a year) I am astonished as usual at the lack of critical thinking around the issue. I can only assume the majority of correspondents here fall neatly into the demographic of retired, pensioned up & unaffected.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 08:00
  #2039 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Does that matter?

No doubt the Tory voters will also fragment. It would then fall to the party that could form a coalition to form a government. On present form that is likely to be a Lib Lab pact again.
Of course Tory voters will do it too ( ref Sallyann) that is why Labour won't fall way behind just get themselves into a position where they cannot win outright with largest party their best possible result. I think the idea of a Lib/Lab pact in such a situation shows a total misunderstanding of British politics at this point. There is no way that either party would entertain the other, it would be total anathema to both.

The only question is whether the resultant defections to the LD's would be sufficient to cause real upsets. A doubling of the current LD ratings of around 10% would see them return to the 50ish seats that they won in 2010. Any score above 20% though sees them harvest disproportionate numbers of seats relative to that increase and 25% would most likely bring 100+.

At that level, assuming that the SNP retain their current numbers then there are only 500 left. Anything like an even split makes forming a government virtually impossible for the two main parties. We are about to see possibly the biggest political realignment for over a century.

The only thing that might avoid this is the defenestration of Corbyn in favour of a Starmer or a Benn ( How ironic would the latter be) but the restructuring of Labour's internal workings makes that very hard to achieve while Corbyn is seen as the Messiah, rather than the very naughty boy that he in fact is.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 08:17
  #2040 (permalink)  
 
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. I can only assume the majority of correspondents here fall neatly into the demographic of retired, pensioned up & unaffected.[/QUOTE]

You could be right. But I wasn't in 1973. I was a paid up member of UK Int. & maybe helped a little. As I'm sure there a plently of (non pensioners ... maybe you're one of them?) currently able to do so. That's the relevance.
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