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How long have you spent circling over airports?

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How long have you spent circling over airports?

Old 14th Oct 2018, 21:31
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How long have you spent circling over airports?

Talk about inefficiency, one that must be solved !

Last edited by CAP A330; 14th Oct 2018 at 21:43.
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Old 14th Oct 2018, 22:06
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Erm, how about building another runway?
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Old 14th Oct 2018, 22:18
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Rather than arriving ahead of landing time and then circling, how about adjust the speed of the flight so that aircraft arrive 'just-in-time'?

Not beyond the capability of man . . . (in this case 'man' is intended to signify the human race and is not meant to be gender-specific)

You would probably save fuel during the flight.
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Old 14th Oct 2018, 22:22
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
Rather than arriving ahead of landing time and then circling, how about adjust the speed of the flight so that aircraft arrive 'just-in-time'?
The only time I spent a few minutes "circling over [an] airport" was exactly that - I knew perfectly well when the ATC closure was due to end but still managed to arrive whilst it had a few minutes to run.
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Old 14th Oct 2018, 22:28
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Many hours in gliders.
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Old 14th Oct 2018, 23:25
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
Rather than arriving ahead of landing time and then circling, how about adjust the speed of the flight so that aircraft arrive 'just-in-time'?

Not beyond the capability of man . . . (in this case 'man' is intended to signify the human race and is not meant to be gender-specific)
Sounds easy in theory, fiendishly difficult to achieve in practice, particularly if you're talking about achieving it at multiple airports.
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Old 14th Oct 2018, 23:39
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Adjusting speed isn't always feasible, occasionally get air traffic telling you to speed back up!
Aiming for a small regional airport I'll arrive early but into Gatwick in rush hour I'll ease off the gas a bit.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 00:43
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Originally Posted by TangoAlphad View Post
Adjusting speed isn't always feasible, occasionally get air traffic telling you to speed back up!
Aiming for a small regional airport I'll arrive early but into Gatwick in rush hour I'll ease off the gas a bit.
Being British, shouldn’t it be “ease off the petrol”?


It’s the Steven Wright in me asking.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 01:23
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Circling OVER the airport is pretty rare, usually you are holding at some distance. But you would already know that, A330 CAPtain, at age 21.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 04:13
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I circle over the airport until the chemtrail tanks run dry.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 07:29
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About two and a half hours, in a January storm, waiting for landing at LHR. As a (PPL) pax I was starting to get a bit concerned about the fuel state and I had read all my novel and was bored stiff.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 07:32
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie View Post
But you would already know that, A330 CAPtain, at age 21.
Yes, a rather ill-judged choice of nom de plume.

Originally Posted by CAP A330 View Post
My question is - what is the cheapest way I can get to a CPL from a PPL? The costs involved in becoming a commercial pilot, for me as a student anyway, are HUGE.
Originally Posted by CAP A330 View Post
As someone studying for the PPL it was even worse than my landings. It was truly terrible.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 07:39
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I haven't been into a hold this year with 660 hours flown so far. Last year it was once when a huge thunderstorm went into the overhead of Hamburg.


They use slots now to stop things piling up.

As for the airports that are operating at nearly the max capacity virtually all day. They need to run stacks to keep a efficient supply to the director.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 08:06
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
Rather than arriving ahead of landing time and then circling, how about adjust the speed of the flight so that aircraft arrive 'just-in-time'?
.
Our policy is to try and do exactly that - adjust the speed to make STA at destination, however going into somewhere running at max capacity in peak hours you'll probably end up delaying somehow ( either circling or "linear" holding).

.and to be fair to the OP for once he/she hasn't offered us advice (based on his experience ) on how to solve the problem.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 08:28
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Once did 2hrs + in the hold over southern England (after an 8hr transatlantic flight) due to fog at all viable alternatives. We landed at LHR, stayed on the ground for 1hr, then repositioned to LGW with a 10min sector. The holding was tough psychologically, as you were anticipating a landing that didn't occur. However 2 landings for the price of one made up for it ;-)

I wouldn't be too hard on CAP A330, they are young and enthusiastic and perhaps their handle is the position they wish to achieve in the not too distant future ?
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 09:01
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SHJ

It's not the "handle" that's been the problem in the past ...there's a clue in something DaveReidUK posted..

Last edited by wiggy; 15th Oct 2018 at 09:14.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 09:52
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post


Being British, shouldn’t it be “ease off the petrol”?


It’s the Steven Wright in me asking.
The Steven Wright in you is quite correct good sir. Too much trash tv I suspect numbing the mind.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 10:12
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I came back from Florida last month and we were delayed leaving because of a high jet-stream wind, which meant we would have arrived at Gatwick too early in the morning.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 10:39
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Our policy is to try and do exactly that - adjust the speed to make STA at destination, however going into somewhere running at max capacity in peak hours you'll probably end up delaying somehow ( either circling or "linear" holding).

.and to be fair to the OP for once he/she hasn't offered us advice (based on his experience ) on how to solve the problem.
the solution is very simple. Computers tell you what to do based on size, speed , distance, etc. It can be worked out in milliseconds and always gives you the optimal solution.

in fact, that’s what I did at previous jobs. Write programs to do all the hard work for you (work smarter not harder). Out with incompetent atc.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 11:06
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Originally Posted by CAP A330 View Post

the solution is very simple. Computers tell you what to do based on size, speed , distance, etc. It can be worked out in milliseconds and always gives you the optimal solution.

in fact, that’s what I did at previous jobs. Write programs to do all the hard work for you (work smarter not harder). Out with incompetent atc.
The problem is that they can't. Taking just met, as an example, how accurate is any forecast wind speed and direction at any altitude? How well can we forecast things like CAT? The answer is not very well at all, at least to the accuracy needed to always ensure there are no unforeseen delays or early arrivals. Add in all the ground-related variables, like an aircraft going technical just before it's about to start, or problems with things like luggage not matching the passenger manifest, and you have to have an adaptive system that can be juggled on the fly. Stacks allow the landing system to work at full capacity at a very busy airport, so that aircraft can join the stack with a degree of variability in their arrival time and be called in to land at the safest and fastest rate possible. Even that has variability, given that spacing varies depending on type.
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